To Wiki or not to Wiki

Questions about SolydXK: forum, project, distribution, etc..
User avatar
smackthepony
Posts: 147
Joined: 28 Oct 2013 13:49
Location: the low countries

To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby smackthepony » 22 Dec 2013 10:57

would it make any sense to set up a wiki that covers most common problems and solutions that users experience, preferably in several languages so new and existing users can easily find what they're after without ploughing through the forums to find an answer.
I think first and foremost an extensive graphical description of the install process could pull more people towards Solyd
(There's a handbook on the German subforum that looks very good as a startoff point)

Please come up up with some constructive feedback on this.
Image

User avatar
kobros
Posts: 194
Joined: 28 Nov 2013 14:48
Location: Netherlands

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby kobros » 22 Dec 2013 15:45

Have a look at this link (Mepis 11 User Manual) : http://www.mepiscommunity.org/user_manual11/index.html

While it doesn't reflect (yet) the current Mepis 12 version, it's a pretty good manual for new users, covering a lot of basics. I think it would make a good starting point for SolydK (even taking into account that Mepis 11 and 12 are based on Debian Stable, not Debian Testing).

You won't find any *buntu* stuff in there....:-)

btw: this is the Mepis Wiki : http://www.mepis.org/docs/en/index.php?title=Main_Page
Linux User #312596.
Mepis/Debian/antiX/MX/Win7

tony
Posts: 42
Joined: 03 Mar 2015 09:50

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby tony » 17 May 2016 15:32

Hi,

I was looking for a solydxk wiki and found this thread.

I can setup a mediawiki instance and provide hosting. If for some reason I can no longer provide hosting in the future, I will make sure that someone from solydxk maintainers has a backup/dump.

I find the arch linux wiki a good example how useful a wiki can be.

User avatar
Zill
Posts: 1850
Joined: 13 Aug 2013 14:28
Location: Lincolnshire, UK

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby Zill » 17 May 2016 18:32

tony: This thread is two and a half years old and so, by normal forum standards, is regarded as "dead"! Rather than resurrect a dead thread, the usual procedure is to start a new one as this is more likely to receive some attention.

While your generous offer to setup and host a Wiki is certainly appreciated, I would offer the following opinions...
  • A new Wiki should not duplicate existing information.
  • A new Wiki would be most useful for rapidly changing distros.
  • Starting a Wiki is easy... Maintaining it is very time-consuming.
As SoldyXK is based on the stability of Debian, which already has an excellent Wiki, I believe it is difficult to justify a specific SolydXK Wiki. It is also difficult to see who would actually keep a SolydXK Wiki up-to-date as I believe it would be unreasonable to expect the current Team to do this as they already have a high workload. A Wiki that is not maintained is, effectively, useless as it would likely contain obsolete information.

IMHO, the SolydXK forums remain the best support tool for all users. The search box at the top of the forum screen is useful in finding information, as is searching via normal internet Search Engines such as Google, StartPage and DuckDuckGo etc. Any user who needs further guidance can always post here on these forums and, hopefully, someone will soon be along to help out.

User avatar
ilu
Posts: 1445
Joined: 09 Oct 2013 12:45

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby ilu » 19 May 2016 00:15

The forums search function is a pita. I manage my own lists to keep track of useful forum threads. A well maintained wiki would be nice but we are sorely lacking (wo)manpower. So we have to make do without.

User avatar
grizzler
Posts: 1837
Joined: 04 Mar 2013 15:45
Location: The Hague, NL

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby grizzler » 19 May 2016 06:12

@tony

It's far more work than you think. We tried to get it restarted last year, actually got a framework set up and put some stuff in it. But there's only 24 hours in a day and you need to sleep some of those as well... :(

I notice the link to it is dead - bummer... I think the last time I looked at it was before the change to https.

And yes, the Arch wiki is a perfect example of a well maintained and very useful wiki. Way out of our league, I think...
Frank

SolydX EE 64 - tracking Debian Testing

tony
Posts: 42
Joined: 03 Mar 2015 09:50

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby tony » 19 May 2016 07:31

I am aware that a wiki requires a lot of work to maintain.

I think may users including me keeps notes of what has been done to my system, so that next time I don't have to search the forum, debian wiki or google again. If we all share our notes in a wiki, it will be more useful.

Or if a question has been asked (and answered) a couple of times in the forum, it makes sense to copy & paste it to the wiki.

User avatar
ilu
Posts: 1445
Joined: 09 Oct 2013 12:45

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby ilu » 19 May 2016 13:43

@grizzler: Would be great if that link could work again because I keep using my local copy since it vanished. Naturally I stopped updating it too but also because of that pesky 24-hours-issue you mentioned...
And I haven't even started to work on some script that would make transferring forum links into that index page a bit easier and quicker. I still think the index page could be at least some help to those doing the support here.

Edit: Actually I just had an idea I'd like to try out as soon as it's back up. Did the wiki pages have MediaWiki format?

User avatar
grizzler
Posts: 1837
Joined: 04 Mar 2013 15:45
Location: The Hague, NL

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby grizzler » 19 May 2016 14:43

I've mentioned it to Arjen. Awaiting his response...
Frank

SolydX EE 64 - tracking Debian Testing

User avatar
Schoelje
Site Admin
Posts: 8324
Joined: 26 Jan 2013 19:36
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby Schoelje » 19 May 2016 16:10

I'm not in favor of a wiki.

Setting it up is not the problem but having the people who are dedicated to maintain this wiki is. Remember that this is a tiny team: grizzler, ane champenois and yours sincerely. We all do this in our spare time and I don't think that the situation hasn't changed that much that we now have enough maintainers to lift the burden of the shoulders of our team members.

Also, I think that a wiki is typically used by knowledgeable users and my philosophy is that a strong community will make a strong distribution. Therefor I'm more in favor of attracting people to the forum and help them personally instead of pointing them to the wiki. We might loose on an opportunity to improve our distribution or anything else that has to do with SolydXK.

Luckily, there are already very good sources to help you solve your (SolydXK related) issues :)


SolydXK needs you!
Development | Testing | Translations

User avatar
ilu
Posts: 1445
Joined: 09 Oct 2013 12:45

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby ilu » 19 May 2016 16:28

I'm trying to offer support in this forum and I'm admittedly not very good at it but I'm getting better. I'm usually answering the same questions again and again. I need a resource to quickly find the necessary information to copy and paste it. I made that wiki index page and it really helped me to save time. Now it's gone and I have to search the forum for the same information again and again. I just can't manage to keep the exact commands in my head and I'm tired of writing the same sentences over and over. I want copy and paste.
I don't know how Zill does it (he seems to have a collection of textblocks - where do you store them Zill?) but I need something to keep the necessary information available without searching through 100+ entries containing the words "blabla". If you won't offer a wiki to the users (I can understand that decision) at least offer the possibility to the helpers.

This is a question of organizing support quality. Every professional helpdesk has such a resource and we should be able to at least try and organize something like that to save ourselves time. If I collect my resources on my own desktop they are only accessible to me. Likewise i can't access Zills resources. I'd like to have a wiki to help the more active forum members collaborate. If it's not public proper maintenance (which I agree would be too much work) would not be crucial and Arjens concerns would be met.

For public information ArchWiki is just fine. :P

User avatar
Zill
Posts: 1850
Joined: 13 Aug 2013 14:28
Location: Lincolnshire, UK

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby Zill » 19 May 2016 18:59

ilu wrote:... I don't know how Zill does it (he seems to have a collection of textblocks - where do you store them Zill?) but I need something to keep the necessary information available without searching through 100+ entries containing the words "blabla".

Sometimes the obvious answer is the right one! Yes, I do keep some forum "boilerplate text" as simple text files so I can just paste them in response to FAQs.

I also keep comprehensive records of my own personal installations, upgrades and code in a long-defunct application called TuxCards. While this is no longer available, it still works well and I can find my technical information very quickly.

However, I do recognise that things have moved on since I started running TuxCards and so I look for alternatives. So far, the best contenders are CherryTree and Zim. Unfortunately, I cannot generate the enthusiasm to shift all my data from TuxCards as it should really be heavily pruned to remove all the obsolete data - and I am lazy at heart. :-)

I have also played around with TiddlyWiki, which seems quite clever as all it needs is a web browser and a page of html - no server required.

So, lots of tools out there - but I still like my TuxCards! ;-)

tony
Posts: 42
Joined: 03 Mar 2015 09:50

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby tony » 20 May 2016 06:33

I used to use TiddlyWiki in the past, however with recent browsers it's getting harder and harder to get it running. Then I switched to simplenote https://app.simplenote.com/, which is much better. Then I switched to "vim notes" https://github.com/xolox/vim-notes, with my notes stored on dropbox. I find this setup right for me.

kurotsugi
Posts: 1851
Joined: 09 Jan 2014 00:17

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby kurotsugi » 28 May 2016 11:18

sorry for joining late in the discussion...I'm agree with schoelje. pointing user to a wiki isn't a good thing when we trying to build a healthy and fun community. arch might have a great wiki but their community isn't the one we called a friendly one.

neither did debian forum. arch and debian user community is wellknown as the most "newbie killer" forum. I really didn't want our lovely forum turned into like that.

IMO a FAQ, or a simple user manual is more approriate for this case. it's simpler, smaller, and obviously more manageable than a wiki. I'm not in favour in wiki but perhaps I can help with a FAQ or user manual.

User avatar
Schoelje
Site Admin
Posts: 8324
Joined: 26 Jan 2013 19:36
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby Schoelje » 28 May 2016 12:08

kurotsugi wrote:IMO a FAQ, or a simple user manual is more approriate for this case. it's simpler, smaller, and obviously more manageable than a wiki. I'm not in favour in wiki but perhaps I can help with a FAQ or user manual.
Or perhaps use the Wiki as a user manual?


SolydXK needs you!
Development | Testing | Translations

User avatar
ilu
Posts: 1445
Joined: 09 Oct 2013 12:45

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby ilu » 28 May 2016 13:02

Nobody wants to point anybody to a wiki kurotsugi. At least I don't want to. The forum will stay as it is and nobody will make RTFM comments. This in only about creating a source of reference for those who feel the need.
And we will certainly never reach Arch wiki proportions. I'd be happy if we found ways to make the forums tutorial section more easiliy accessible. There's a lot of knowledge buried there but it's hard to dig up.

kurotsugi
Posts: 1851
Joined: 09 Jan 2014 00:17

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby kurotsugi » 28 May 2016 13:21

you guys were using "wiki" terms and perhaps my mind is stuck with something like arch wiki.

to make things clear, in my mind the FAQ is strictly used to:
1. an introduction : what is solydxk, the team, how thing works here, some basic manner. things which made user quickly adapt to the community.
2. cover things which not available on everywhere else. how to install solydxk, how to use solydxk tool, etc.
3. small tutorial to some basic stuff
4. answer frequently asked question. this part must be the last part.

this is my ideal FAQ so it might be different with others idea. the main differences between my approach and the wiki guy in arch/debian forum is how the FAQ is used.

the wiki guy will answer :
please read this <refer a link>, this and that."


my approach: we personally answer the question until he/she satisfied. then end the discussion with
if you have further question feel free to visit our FAQ here <give the FAQ link>. you can also read more stuff here, here, and here.


the main FAQ function isn't to answer the question but rather to build interaction between user and solydxk. hence, it's necessary to put some introduction in the FAQ.

the FAQ also must as simple as possible so that a new linux user could easily follow it. a wiki sometimes too technical and too "scary" for new user.

I think the mepis user manual above could be used to ilustrate the idea. it's quite different with with arch wiki. do we actually talk about same stuff here? or perhaps I missed something?

User avatar
belze
Posts: 216
Joined: 29 Sep 2014 16:31
Location: Torino, Italy

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby belze » 02 Jun 2016 13:21

in my view we do need a wiki for an easy access to solydxk tools = what is not part of debian and makes solydxk so lovely.
i'd like to have an easy way to show how to translate solydxk in another language, how to use updatermanager and so on. I don't see a wiki page "how to rebuild kernels using solydxk", of course.
Anyway, i think solydxk's team did something GREAT: videos. We should give some more love to solydxk's related videos IMHO.
-------
Image

User avatar
xendistar
Posts: 356
Joined: 08 Jun 2014 08:17
Location: Bournemouth, UK

Re: To Wiki or not to Wiki

Postby xendistar » 02 Jun 2016 19:49

One of the local lugs (Linux user Group) changed there web site into a wiki, they spent more time trying to protect the wiki site from spammers than they did updating the site. Wiki's are great if used in a closed environment but not in an open environment. A far better idea would be a video montage using screen shots with text overlay on how to perform certain tasks.


Return to “Non-technical”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest