Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

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BostonPeng
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Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

Postby BostonPeng » 12 Mar 2013 19:19

Yep, and this is an oldie. We really need a better source for multimedia .deb's.
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Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

Postby cwwgateway » 12 Mar 2013 22:12

BostonPeng wrote:Yep, and this is an oldie. We really need a better source for multimedia .deb's.
Debian's getting there... they've improved over Squeeze, but deb-multimedia is (apparently) still needed for some stuff. TBH I don't know what I need it for, but I probably use it for something. IIRC Mepis had some multimedia stuff in their repos (I only remember because the multimedia repo isn't enabled by default), but that is the only alternative I've seen (besides Debian itself).
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Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

Postby greywolf » 13 Mar 2013 23:38

Not too long ago, I ran a partition on my newer test machine of a direct Debian Xfce setup that was aimed at Unstable/Experimental, used a Liquorix kernel from Smxi and nVidia graphics drivers. It had the deb-multimedia repos removed altogether. I had to pick up libdvdcss2 from elsewhere as a "once only" download, but the system ran perfectly fine, including basic multimedia stuff.

It may depend on which apps you use, with VLC now having every codec known to man :) built in & running the VLC media plugin for Firefox/Iceweasel instead of Gecko; and not using Gstreamer stuff if you can help it, I think we are pretty damn close to running Debian without deb-multimedia at all. However, this was a Sid system, I am not sure about Testing?

What I do know is that you will rush straight to "dependency hell" if you mix-n-match!! Do not have them on, turn them off, turn them back on, etc, between updates. It's either all in or not in at all with those repos.

I am pretty sure that setup has been over-ridden but I might do it again to see if I can document some of this.

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Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 14 Mar 2013 10:35

If we ever consider dropping deb-multimedia, I have to know which packages currently in the iso's are affected if we do so.
That is quite a time-consuming task and time is something I don't have enough.
If anyone would like to volunteer, I'd be eternally grateful :D


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Re: Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

Postby zerozero » 14 Mar 2013 11:27

i'm not an heavy multimedia user but what i know:
  • libdvdcss2 (as greywolf pointed out: only in marillat)
  • some other app are compiled in marillat with extra (non-free) features that debian can't ship
    (i remember an old rant about darkice [debian version] vs darkice-full [marillat's version])
  • marillat has newer app than testing (this is "interesting" in freezing periods)
  • marillat makes it a pain in the back to use just some of his app: it's all or nothing (issue already pointed out here also) and i don't like to be tied to a repo like this
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Re: Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 14 Mar 2013 20:11

If Marillat has stuff that is widely used but not in the Debian repo, I could add it to the SolydXK repo.
Personally I'd love to get rid of this "vendor lock-in". Please, forgive me the business term.


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Re: Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

Postby zerozero » 14 Mar 2013 23:25

Schoelje wrote:If Marillat has stuff that is widely used but not in the Debian repo
see if i can have a closer look at this over the weekend
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Re: Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

Postby cwwgateway » 15 Mar 2013 01:14

Here's simply a list of what I have installed from debian-multimedia:

Code: Select all

2mandvd
2mandvd-data
deb-multimedia-keyring #obviously not needed if not using deb-multimedia repo
ffmpeg
gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg
gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad
libaacplus2
libaacplus2:i386
libavcodec53
libavcodec53:i386
libavdevice54
libavfilter3
libavformat53
libdvdcss2
libfaac0
libfaac0:i386
liblavfile-2.0-0
liblavjpeg-2.0-0
liblavplay-2.0-0
libmjpegutils-2.0-0
libmp3lame0
libmp3lame0:i386
libmpeg2encpp-2.0-0
libmplex2-2.0-0
libswresample0
libtag1-vanilla
libtag1c2a
libtagc0
libx265-124
libx264-124:i386
libxine2
libxine2-bin
libxine2-console
libxine2-ffmpeg
libxine2-misc-plugins
libxine2-plugins
libxvidcore4
libxvidcore4:i386
mencoder
mjpegtools
mplayer
I'll have to go through the list and figure out what isn't offered in debian and what I actually use. I don't have much time right now, so it'll probably be this weekend.

Edit: It seems I went through the wrong section in synaptic :oops: (testing/non-free (ftp.us.debian.org) vs testing/non-free (www.deb-multimedia.org) so I removed everything from the non-free section
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Re: Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

Postby greywolf » 15 Mar 2013 02:57

I will have a closer look at my system this weekend as well.

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Re: Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 15 Mar 2013 07:34

Thanks guys!
This really takes a lot of time, and that's the main reason why I haven't got around it yet.


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Re: Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 25 Mar 2013 21:24

Gentlemen, any results from your investigations?


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Re: Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

Postby cwwgateway » 25 Mar 2013 22:46

Sorry, completely forgot to post this :oops: . So here are the packages in DMO that are not offered by debian that I have installed:

Code: Select all

2mandvd
2mandvd-data
deb-multimedia-keyring #again, not needed if not using DMO repo
gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad
libaacplus2
libavdevice54
libdvdcss2 #I believe this is necessary for DVDs
libfaac0
liblavfile-2.0-0
liblavjpeg-2.0-0
liblavplay-2.0-0
libmjpegutils-2.0-0
libmpeg2encpp-2.0-0
libmplex2-2.0-0
libswresample0
libx264-124
mjpegtools
And here is what's also in Debian:

Code: Select all

ffmpeg # version 1.0.5 in DMO vs 0.8.5 in Debian
gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg #same version in DMO and Debian
libavcodec53 #version 0.10.3 in DMO vs 0.8.5 in Debian
libavfilter3 #version 8:1.0.5 in DMO vs 6:9.4 in Debian Experimental
libavformat53 #version 0.10.3 in DMO vs 0.8.5 in Debian
libmp3lame0 #same version in DMO and Debian
libtag1-vanilla #version 1.8 in DMO vs 1.7.2 in Debian Testing and 1.8 in Debian Experimental
libtag1c2a #version 1.8 in DMO vs 1.7.2 in Debian Testing and 1.8 in Debian Experimental
libragc0 #version 1.8 in DMO vs 1.7.2 in Debian Testing and 1.8 in Debian Experimental
libxine2 #version 1:1.2.2 in DMO vs 1.2.2 in Debian
libxine2-bin #version 1:1.2.2 in DMO vs 1.2.2 in Debian
libxine2-console #version 1:1.2.2 in DMO vs 1.2.2 in Debian
libxine2-ffmpeg #version 1:1.2.2 in DMO vs 1.2.2 in Debian
libxine2-misc-plugins #version 1:1.2.2 in DMO vs 1.2.2 in Debian
libxine2-plugins #version 1:1.2.2 in DMO vs 1.2.2 in Debian
libxvidcore4 #version 3:1.3.2 in DMO vs 2:1.3.2 in Debian
mencoder #version 3:1.1 in DMO vs 2:1.0 in Debian
mplayer #version 3:1.1 in DMO vs 2:1.0 in Debian
When I say version x.y in Debian, I mean it's currently in Debian Testing. I specified in the one case where experimental was mentioned. I don't have Sid sources enabled, so I didn't check for sid.
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Re: Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 25 Mar 2013 22:53

Okay, I'll collect all the packages that are only found in deb-multimedia.


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Re: Deb-Multimedia: really needed?

Postby zerozero » 26 Mar 2013 00:55

unfortunately i'm afraid that it won't be this simple.
i had a good look at this the other weekend and gave up because the trouble is too high:
- the packages in deb-multimedia are in one way or another all (or almost all) inter-dependent;
- a quick example: 2mandvd (mentioned here by cww) depends on ffmpeg (as most of the multimedia app) so if we don't collect also ffmpeg (and a compatible version with the app that we are going to support, they will be broken by definition)

Code: Select all

zerozero@solydk ~ $ apt rdepends ffmpeg
ffmpeg
Reverse Depends:
  ffmpeg:i386
  videotrans
  videoporama
 |mythweb
 |mytharchive
  libmlt5
  kdenlive
  foobnix
  ffmpeg-dbg
  dvdwizard
  dvdrip
  dvd95
  dvd-slideshow
 |devede
  bombono-dvd
  2mandvd
  libav-tools:i386
  libav-tools:i386
  ffmpeg:i386
  zoomer
  zoneminder
 |youtube-dl
  youtube-dl
  xwax
  winff
  libsynfig0
  stopmotion
  soundkonverter
  python-scitools
  rtmpdump
  ripit
  rheolef
  python-satellites
  pacpl
  motion
  miro
  lives
  libav-tools
  libav-tools
  libav-dbg
  kmplayer
  kino
  kdenlive
  jsymphonic
  imagination
  imagemagick
  idjc
  gvb
  get-iplayer
  ffdiaporama
  devede
  education-desktop-other
  clive
  bitpim
  libavbin0
then we have some odd packages like

Code: Select all

zerozero@solydk ~ $ apt show w64codecs
Package: w64codecs
New: yes
State: installed
Automatically installed: no
Multi-Arch: same
Version: 1:20071007-dmo2
Priority: optional
Section: non-free/graphics
Maintainer: Christian Marillat <marillat@deb-multimedia.org>
Architecture: amd64
Uncompressed Size: 478 k
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.2), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.1)
Description: win64 binary codecs
 This package contain video codecs for popular proprietary formats not natively
 supported by mplayer. 
 
 Add support for RealVideo.
Homepage: http://www1.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/releases/codecs/

and

Code: Select all

zerozero@solydk ~ $ grep Package /var/lib/apt/lists/debian.solydxk.com_testing_multimedia_dists_testing_non-free_binary-amd64_Packages
Package: acroread
Package: acroread-data
Package: acroread-dictionary-en
Package: acroread-escript
Package: acroread-l10n-en
Package: acroread-plugins
Package: flashplayer-mozilla
Package: kde-config-flash-player
Package: mozilla-acroread
Package: w64codecs
(here the relevance is acroread imo)

and i still see mismatches (with the few multimedia app/lib) installed in this system

Code: Select all

zerozero@solydk ~ $ apt-show-versions | fgrep dmo
deb-multimedia-keyring/testing uptodate 2012.05.10-dmo3
ffmpeg 7:1.0-dmo4 newer than version in archive
gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg 1:0.10.13-dmo1 newer than version in archive
gstreamer0.10-plugins-really-bad 0.10.23-dmo3 newer than version in archive
libaacplus2/testing uptodate 2.0.2-dmo1
libavcodec53/testing uptodate 7:0.10.3-dmo1
libavcodec54/solydxk uptodate 8:1.0.5-dmo1
libavdevice54 7:1.0-dmo4 newer than version in archive
libavfilter3 7:1.0-dmo4 installed: No available version in archive
libavformat53/testing uptodate 7:0.10.3-dmo1
libavformat54/solydxk uptodate 8:1.0.5-dmo1
libavutil51/solydxk uptodate 8:1.0.5-dmo1
libdvdcss2 1.2.12-dmo2 newer than version in archive
libfaac0/testing uptodate 1:1.28-dmo3
libloudmouth1-0/testing uptodate 1.4.3-8
libmjpegutils-2.0-0 2:2.0.0-dmo5 installed: No available version in archive
libmp3lame0/testing uptodate 1:3.99.5-dmo1
libmpeg2encpp-2.0-0 2:2.0.0-dmo5 installed: No available version in archive
libmplex2-2.0-0 2:2.0.0-dmo5 installed: No available version in archive
libpostproc52/solydxk uptodate 8:1.0.5-dmo1
libswresample0 7:1.0-dmo4 newer than version in archive
libswscale2/solydxk uptodate 8:1.0.5-dmo1
libtag1-vanilla 1.8-dmo1 newer than version in archive
libtag1c2a 1.8-dmo1 newer than version in archive
libvlc5/solydxk uptodate 1:2.0.5-dmo2
libvlccore5/solydxk uptodate 1:2.0.5-dmo2
libx264-124/testing uptodate 3:0.124.2197+git69a0443-dmo1
libx264-129 3:0.129.2230+git1cffe9f-dmo1 installed: No available version in archive
libx264-130/solydxk uptodate 3:0.130.2274+gitc832fe9-dmo1
libxvidcore4/testing uptodate 3:1.3.2-dmo1
mplayer 3:1.1-dmo8 newer than version in archive
vlc/solydxk uptodate 1:2.0.5-dmo2
vlc-data/solydxk uptodate 1:2.0.5-dmo2
vlc-nox/solydxk uptodate 1:2.0.5-dmo2
vlc-plugin-notify/solydxk uptodate 1:2.0.5-dmo2
vlc-plugin-pulse/solydxk uptodate 1:2.0.5-dmo2
w64codecs 1:20071007-dmo2 newer than version in archive
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