[CLOSED] I need your opinion: off-line installation locales

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[CLOSED] I need your opinion: off-line installation locales

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 08 Mar 2014 12:30

LMDE now ships all localized packages (l10n) with the ISO for off-line installation.

I found that was a very interesting idea, and investigated what that would mean for SolydXK, and found the following:
  • SolydX would add about 100MB of packages to the ISO.
  • SolydK would add almost 600MB (KDE packages are the culprit here)
You see that the SolydK ISO would become a 2.2GB download instead of the current 1.6GB.

What localization manner would you prefer, off-line, or on-line?
  1. Off-line:
    I want to be able to internationalize my installation without an internet connection, and I don't mind the extra size of the ISO.
  2. On-line:
    I'd rather download the packages during installation, and keep the ISO size as small as possible.


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Night Wing
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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby Night Wing » 08 Mar 2014 12:47

I prefer on-line with the smaller ISO.

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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby mhwelsh » 08 Mar 2014 13:44

The present proposal does not really apply to me as I am a BE person.
My views are that I would prefer a smaller iso.

I am a bit of a fumble fingers and never seem to be able to do everything in one download so the smaller the iso the better.
Another memory was getting a full download only for the computer to confess that in didn't get it.
I am still on a restricted monthly download - hence my personal bias.

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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby Deleted User 1322 » 08 Mar 2014 14:02

"On-line" is going to be the one and only method in future for sure.

But up to now a lot of users are forced to chance their OS (like the those with XP actually). Either they will buy a new PC with pre-installed OS, or they are going to search for an alternative OS like SlodyXK. The current PCs and the current infrastructure of internet should be the measures of all things, because some users are working with an old hardware. Large packages will cause a very long time of download. In Europe already every country isn't up to date with fast internet.

A simple example:
I'm working with Manjaro too and caused by several issues I had to install the system for about four times. My internet has a speed of 541 kb/s in download. The download often tooks time of half an hour, the system itself was ready to use after an hour. For a newbie this is too long in refer to a newer PC with pre-installed OS which is usable immediately.

In my opinion "On-line" is the right way. But you should yourself make aware of the "old hardware" which is in use all over Europe and the world. Maybe the troubles possible users will have will be much more heavier then the troubles you will have when using the "off-line" way.

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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby drum » 08 Mar 2014 16:33

a minimum usb-stick these days is 2Gb, the kde version is 2.2Gb so i should say 'on-line'
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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby kobros » 08 Mar 2014 18:16

My recommendation for SolydXK: On-line; to keep the media size as small as possible.
There are still lots of folks that will refuse a 2+ GB download, because of low speed, unreliable connections and/or monthly download caps. Personally it doesn't matter which option you chose: I have a fast 100/100 Mbit fiber-optical connection - without any cap.

Seemingly a bit off-topic: MX-14 is only available as a 32bit XFCE version (there's no KDE version), but the MX iso is still less than 700 MB and it carries quite a lot of good applications AND it does provide some 30+ language localizations at installation time...
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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby kurotsugi » 08 Mar 2014 18:30

a little bit off topic but I think we could shrink a lil bit more. on solydx's latest iso I got imagemagik, shotwell, gimp, and one more app to see pictures (I forgot the name, sorry). I think we can unistall two of them since they have similar purpose, i.e: leave only gimp and shotwell on the iso.

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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 08 Mar 2014 18:36

Please, stay on topic.
I just need to know what you think about what is described in the OP: on-line or off-line.


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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby RcyberN » 08 Mar 2014 18:43

#2 (online) because smaller download.

With that being said, I'm curious why the LMDE team made that decision. It will also add to their file size. What's the advantage besides longer downloads and more bandwidth being utilized ? I don't expect that question answered. It's only food for thought.

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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 08 Mar 2014 19:37

RcyberN wrote:#2 (online) because smaller download.

With that being said, I'm curious why the LMDE team made that decision. It will also add to their file size. What's the advantage besides longer downloads and more bandwidth being utilized ? I don't expect that question answered. It's only food for thought.
I suppose they wanted users to be able to localize their systems, even if they don't have an internet connection.


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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby alefa » 08 Mar 2014 19:49

I vote for online localization. 1.5 GB is already quite large for a Linux ISO. My download speed at home is not great. It took me an hour to download the ISO and then I accidently deleted it (together with the torrent file) and had to do the download again. By the way, if I didn't have a decent internet connection, I wouldn't use a (semi-)rolling release distro like LMDE or SolydXK.
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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby zerozero » 08 Mar 2014 23:25

we have here already listed some of the disadvantages of off-line installation; which are the advantages? what are the user-cases that will benefit from this change? what is the problem that we are trying to solve?
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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby ajpat3 » 08 Mar 2014 23:36

Online. For me, smaller is better. Thanks.

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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby ScottQuier » 09 Mar 2014 02:18

Online ... But I'm a bit biased by the fact that the distro is already localized for English. Even were that not the case, I would not be interested in downloading a bunch of language material for which I have no use.
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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby fleabus » 09 Mar 2014 02:35

Online/smaller .iso

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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby wayne » 09 Mar 2014 03:12

SolydK ISO would become a 2.2GB download instead of the current 1.6GB
Huge increase for a very small 'gain'.

My choice is Online and small-size iso.

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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby GDI » 09 Mar 2014 03:47

My selection would be on-line with a smaller Iso.

The off-line would be useless for me as all I need is the one language/local and all the added material would only make the Iso larger and of no use to me. If I needed the additional material, I could download/install at installation time or at a later date.


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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby sumitb » 09 Mar 2014 04:36

I vote for smaller iso with online installation of langauge packs.
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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 09 Mar 2014 07:33

zerozero wrote:we have here already listed some of the disadvantages of off-line installation; which are the advantages? what are the user-cases that will benefit from this change? what is the problem that we are trying to solve?
I can only assume why Clem decided for this approach. For example, it would make it possible if someone needs to install the system (on several PCs, like a school) with a certain locale where one does not have the availability of an internet connection. Other than that, I cannot think of any other reason. I have to admit, I am rather confused why Clem assumes users not having an internet connection, rather than having one.


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Re: I need your opinion: off-line installation of locales

Postby stelios » 09 Mar 2014 14:59

The whole purpose of using a rolling distribution is to install it once. So the initial size should not matter. if i had to reinstall frequently, only then it should be considered as a problem.

But, lets face it. We are not normal users. We are linux software junkies. Which is why we install again and again a rolling distribution! What about normal users who want to install it once. No testing, no messing around with it and breaking it. Is the extra size important to them? They will only download the ISO once.

Smaller ISOs are fine with me, even preferable. I don't know about normal users. Or multiple installations on a group of computers. If they use Squid, it will not be a problem. If not, and they plan to install it once, as they should with a rolling distribution, it should not be a major problem either. They will download the extra packages once.

I think it really has to do with how this issue is perceived by the general public. Do they consider downloading the extra language packages separately as an inconvenience or not? Unfortunately, we are not the "general public", so i think you are asking this question to the wrong crowd.


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