The future of SolydXK

Important informations about SolydXK including releases notes, forum rules and other anouncements
josk
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby josk » 16 Aug 2014 19:55

If I choose to follow Debian testing will there be some Solyd repository for up-to-date Firefox, Flash etc?

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Snap
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Snap » 16 Aug 2014 21:35

If I understood it right, they will be backports for stable. If you choose to follow testing you'll be targeting Debian testing directly. In both cases You'll get rather up-to-date versions of those particular packages.

Wish ffmpeg gets back to Debian ASAP so we won't need flash in most situations, just for a bunch of sites like Postimage or Tinypic. Regarding Firefox, Thunderbird, etc... If you want the latest bleeding edge versions, Debian testing or the stable backports are not the ones to use. Better think of standalone user mantained installs directly downloaded from the developer sites. Nevertheless the backported and testing versions are acceptably up-to-date for most users.
This likely means that your installation is broken. -Mr Pixbuf.

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josk
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby josk » 16 Aug 2014 22:18

Snap wrote: If you want the latest bleeding edge versions, Debian testing or the stable backports are not the ones to use. Better think of standalone user mantained installs directly downloaded from the developer sites.
Been there done that couple of years ago on pure Debian Testing. It feeled that Debian testing repository always contained some old version of the Iceweasel (Firefox without branding) and I needed update the Firefox by myself. I know that SolydK with backports isn't for me so I need to find some Debian testing based base distro that contains updates for Firefox, Flash etc... or install those directly from the official sites. Installing from the websites makes me think about Windows...argh!

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zerozero
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby zerozero » 16 Aug 2014 23:06

Josk

FF and TB are packaged by SolydXK and offered in our own repo (both for BE and present HE and future RR) in the stable and ESR versions (that are at the moment of writing 31.0 and 31.0ESR for FF and 31.0 for TB)


===
Frank (grizzler) is doing an amazing work keeping track of security updates for flash (not only of course, but that was the one you asked) and flash is always kept up to date.
bliss of ignorance

kbd
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby kbd » 16 Aug 2014 23:41

Schoelje wrote:
kbd wrote:Since things are probably going to be rather quiet around here until the next Stable release, would it be possible to get a 32 bit spin of the current business edition released? Or would that be too much work?
Most of my Linux computers are 32 bit.
It might be interesting to see how a Solydxk based on Stable would handle a dist-upgrade to the next Stable release (jessie).
Just a thought :-)
A few weeks ago, I prepared some 32-bit BE ISOs. I haven't tested them, and I'll probably not release them officially, but if you want you can test them here: http://downloads.solydxk.nl/dev/
That's awesome! Thanks!

Deleted User 2767

Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Deleted User 2767 » 16 Aug 2014 23:47

Schoelje wrote:We have a philosopher amongst us: [...]
Who amongst us is not a philosopher? Your philosophy is everything I am working to get my head around here! The only disctinction I would make between myself and anyone else is the philosophy (not whether we are philosophers), and the attention I pay to my philosophy. In the end, I am the subject on which I aspire to be an expert. Who am I without philosophy? I aspire to be an expert in my life, particularly since I appear to be obligated to live.
Schoelje wrote:I had to read that several times, explain it to Dutch to my wife before I (think I) understood it :D
Well, at least I know that you know something of the work I have to do to understand you and everyone else here! (And it's harder for me because I am so ignorant on the subject.)

Believe it or not, I strive for brevity and clarity. (Sacrificing clarity to brevity does more to promote misunderstanding than pure meanness, and is in the end more work.) So thanks for your patience with this pragmatic skepticist.

Refugee
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Refugee » 17 Aug 2014 00:21

This has been an unusually fascinating thread to wade through, thought provoking at the very least. In the end, SolydXK has a future and ultimately (in context) that's all that really matters (in spite of any suggestion to the contrary).

A few years ago, a very similar situation and ensuing discussion took place on the Mepis forums in which Warren Woodford simply chose to walk away from his user-base rather than addressing their concerns. I am thankful that this is not what has transpired here. I deeply appreciate the developers time, energy and patience spent listening and responding to its users. It speaks highly of you and suggests positively regarding the overall potential for SolydXK itself.

Nothing like change and the unknown to get folks riled up. How about letting this thread rest now and letting the Devs get back to their day jobs? :P

Andrew
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Andrew » 17 Aug 2014 02:03

I'm just going to let things roll & see what happens. If the new changes result in a continuing stable OS I'll be happy. I'm not interested in having "bleed edge up-to-date-this-very-minute" packages. If the packages that are installed on my computer do the job I need them to do, & the resulting install is stable, that's all I want.
Desktop: 64bit 2.6gHz dualcore 2G RAM - SolydK HE
Laptop: Dell D630 Latitude; 64bit 2gHz dualcore 2G RAM - SolydK BE



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MoldMe
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby MoldMe » 17 Aug 2014 02:40

I don't need Debian Stable with Backports. I already have that with CrunchBang. SolydXK semi-rolling with Debian Testing was a good step up. Too bad it's all coming to an end. Since there's nothing different about the newer edition compared to my CrunchBang install, I'll part ways and wish the dev team well.

CrunchBang -- Siduction -- SolydBang (Openbox, Tint2, most of XFCE4 removed, CrunchBang scripts)

ukbrian
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby ukbrian » 17 Aug 2014 05:06

Refugee wrote:A few years ago, a very similar situation and ensuing discussion took place on the Mepis forums in which Warren Woodford simply chose to walk away from his user-base rather than addressing their concerns. I am thankful that this is not what has transpired here. I deeply appreciate the developers time, energy and patience spent listening and responding to its users. It speaks highly of you and suggests positively regarding the overall potential for SolydXK itself.
How much/many years of his life did Warren Woodford devote to Open Source, I'm appalled.

A gypsy wanted to give me a Lakeland terrier crossed with a Yorkshire terrier and when he eventually convinced me and I said yes he said
Gypsy wrote:I'd give him to you but then the dog would be worthless, if folk don't pay for something they don't value it, give me a £1
I learnt many things off That Man in the to short a time our paths crossed. I went to his Eldest daughters wedding.

josk
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby josk » 17 Aug 2014 05:57

zerozero wrote: FF and TB are packaged by SolydXK and offered in our own repo (both for BE and present HE and future RR) in the stable and ESR versions (that are at the moment of writing 31.0 and 31.0ESR for FF and 31.0 for TB)

Frank (grizzler) is doing an amazing work keeping track of security updates for flash (not only of course, but that was the one you asked) and flash is always kept up to date.
Thanks for info and that you will keep on mind also users that will run future RR. It's good to know that future RR on pure Debian Testing will get third party software (ex. for FF, Flash etc.) updates still via Solyd repository. Then I will not have any problems to live on it. It's huge help that you will offer me repository to get those things that are not in the repositories of the Debian. Thanks!

This current Solyd feels like the great idea of Constable Usable Testing http://cut.debian.net/. I hope that in the future someone will offer similar mechanism as that. It seems that CUT project is discontinued also.

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grizzler
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby grizzler » 17 Aug 2014 06:17

zerozero wrote:Frank (grizzler) is doing an amazing work keeping track of security updates for flash (not only of course, but that was the one you asked) and flash is always kept up to date.
Actually, the flash updates are provided by an autobuilder created by Arjen... ;)
Frank

SolydX EE 64 - tracking Debian Testing

Refugee
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Refugee » 17 Aug 2014 06:50

ukbrian wrote:
Refugee wrote:A few years ago, a very similar situation and ensuing discussion took place on the Mepis forums in which Warren Woodford simply chose to walk away from his user-base rather than addressing their concerns. I am thankful that this is not what has transpired here. I deeply appreciate the developers time, energy and patience spent listening and responding to its users. It speaks highly of you and suggests positively regarding the overall potential for SolydXK itself.
How much/many years of his life did Warren Woodford devote to Open Source, I'm appalled.

A gypsy wanted to give me a Lakeland terrier crossed with a Yorkshire terrier and when he eventually convinced me and I said yes he said
Gypsy wrote:I'd give him to you but then the dog would be worthless, if folk don't pay for something they don't value it, give me a £1
I learnt many things off That Man in the to short a time our paths crossed. I went to his Eldest daughters wedding.
I'm sorry you find my comment appalling but it is a statement of fact. I was a contributing member of that exceptional community for nearly 10 years, I stand behind what I said.

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Snap
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Snap » 17 Aug 2014 06:59

MoldMe wrote:I don't need Debian Stable with Backports. I already have that with CrunchBang. SolydXK semi-rolling with Debian Testing was a good step up. Too bad it's all coming to an end. Since there's nothing different about the newer edition compared to my CrunchBang install, I'll part ways and wish the dev team well.
I'm coming from Crunchbang too. And like you, this was my initial concern when this announcement was made. But there is a significant difference. Crunchbang has its own small repo for the specific packages, scripts and tweaks. The rest tracks Debian Stable. You cannot get Firefox or Thunderbird from the stock repos and as usual in stable, rather old versions of most apps. But the SolydXK repo will keep including those up to date main apps. FF, TH, a recent KDE, XFCE, etc... It's quite different. Not pure or almost pure (like Crunchbang) Debian stable, and why after my initial intention of bailing out for the reasons above. I still want to keep going and give it a chance.
This likely means that your installation is broken. -Mr Pixbuf.

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eidnch
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby eidnch » 17 Aug 2014 10:11

I have a stable LTS ubuntu install and for my needs i see no advantage from a debian stable distro over ubuntu. I installed SolydX with UPs to test, if the semi release model has advantages over ubuntu LTS. What i can say after my 2 years with LMDE and SolydX, for me the advantage from a semi release model over a LTS distro are more than the disadvatages. But this is my experience and point of view. So i will format the SolydX portion and try PCLinuxOS for testing, PCLinuxOS exists already long, so i hope it will also exist the next years. The advantage of debian is, its not a one man projekt, so it will be there also in 10 years. So its a good base for a semi rolling releas model. So i would have prefered debian with UPs. Perhaps someone else will take care for the needs of a debian with UPs. Debian testing is also no option for me, i used Arch and what i can say, its the best rolling distro so far.

I still think UPs are also a option for a business model: perhaps one UP in one year. Then its well tested and stable. For a company its a advantage if you don't have to reinstall the system. Between the UPs small security updates for browser, etc. and cases like that year with openssl. For the UPs and support the companies have to pay. I think it would work. Why not start a kickstart campaigne to finance a full time developer for this till that business model is working?

But i wish SolydXK success with their decision. But i fear SolydXK will disappear, because there are to many distros based on debian stable who offer the same. There are to many who tried that approach and failed. Ubuntu is the only debian based distro who succeded in the business world and i think its hard to compete with ubuntu in that.

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Snap
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Snap » 17 Aug 2014 10:38

Snap wrote:
i see some questions about how up to date the BE can be (not out-of-the-box but using backports and our own added software)

what i did:
took the existing SolydK-BE and added backports

Code: Select all
zerozero@k-be ~ $ inxi -r
Repos: Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://business.solydxk.nl/production/ solydxk main upstream import
deb http://business-debian.solydxk.nl/production/ solydxk main contrib non-free
deb http://business-debian.solydxk.nl/security solydxk main contrib non-free
deb http://http.debian.net/debian wheezy-backports main contrib non-free
About to try this in VirtualBox. Thanks for the tips zerozero.
I've been playing with this for a while, and though it works nice, I'm not very happy going back to stable, KDE 4.8, etc... I'll check the RR approach instead. I'm installing a fresh HE in VirtualBox right now and will point it to Debian testing. Any tips for this? I plan to comment out the Solyd repos and add the regular Debian ones to the sources list. Should I keep any Solyd repo enabled?
This likely means that your installation is broken. -Mr Pixbuf.

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grizzler
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby grizzler » 17 Aug 2014 10:49

The SolydX 64 Testing VM I started with the July Home Edition ISO has this in sources.list:

deb http://home.solydxk.nl/production/ solydxk main upstream import
deb http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free
deb http://community.solydxk.nl/production/ solydxk main

Without the solydxk entries, you won't get things like the flash, firefox and thunderbird updates.
Frank

SolydX EE 64 - tracking Debian Testing

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Snap
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Snap » 17 Aug 2014 10:54

Thanks a bunch, Grizzier. :mrgreen:
This likely means that your installation is broken. -Mr Pixbuf.

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zerozero
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby zerozero » 17 Aug 2014 11:04

since we started this discussion i moved my main system to track debian testing directly.
this is the full output of inxi -r

Code: Select all

zerozero@home ~ $ inxi -r
Repos:     Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list
           deb http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian/ wheezy contrib
           deb http://packages.solydxk.com/testing/ solydxk main upstream import
           deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free
           deb http://debian.solydxk.com/security testing/updates main contrib non-free
           deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org testing main non-free
           Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-talkplugin.list
           deb http://dl.google.com/linux/talkplugin/deb/ stable main
           Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/opera-developer.list
           deb http://deb.opera.com/opera-developer/ stable non-free #Opera Browser (final releases)
zerozero@home ~ $ 
  • the virtualbox, google and opera repos are of course my option and have nothing to do with the issue at hand.
  • the deb-multimedia repo i have to keep it in this system among other reasons because removing DMO would break this system (but this is here and me, not a general recommendation)
  • debian.solydxk/security i kept it as an experiment to see how relevant our security updates would be in a RR scenario (so far i had none coming from that repo <as i was expecting>)
  • noticed now that somehow community.solydxk was missing :oops: too much editing
so, yeahh, in short, the list Frank posted is a good start.
bliss of ignorance

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Zill
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Zill » 17 Aug 2014 11:09

Snap wrote:... I'm not very happy going back to stable, KDE 4.8, etc...
I think this is a misunderstanding as I don't believe anyone will be "going back to stable". SolydXK will only adopt Stable as the primary release when Jessie moves from Testing to Stable. As the current SolydXK HE uses Jessie, this means that there will effectively be no change to current packages. Although the current stable KDE is v4.8, when Jessie becomes the new stable KDE will be at v4.13 or later.

For example, see Debian package kde-baseapps


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