The future of SolydXK

Important informations about SolydXK including releases notes, forum rules and other anouncements
daspicer
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby daspicer » 13 Sep 2014 14:29

I love SolydK, but I run SolydX for its speed and flexability. The great thing about a Debian distro is you can grab whatever you like from any of the Debian repos. I just installed the 3.16 kernel, headers, and an updated xorg-ati from Sid, and life is good. I'm staying with SolydXK regardless of what happens in the next few months. Of course if things begin to unravel then I can always just plug what I have directly into Sid.

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Recy
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Recy » 21 Sep 2014 07:17

I wish I could say I'm not a little disappointed, but I'd be lying. But still, you gotta do what you gotta do.
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igor83
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby igor83 » 21 Sep 2014 15:01

Schoelje wrote:I can't say what the differences will be between the products, but some have suggested that Clem's core business are the regular, Ubuntu based distributions, not LMDE. For us, there's only SolydXK. You cannot find LMDE on Mint's frontpage, and making LMDE Mint's core business was one of my suggestions at that time. That's the reason why we decided to create SolydXK.
Clem is planning to move LMDE to Stable too, if I recall. Reading the LMDE forum, it's clear Linux Mint users have had problems with those update packs over there too, so it's definitely a hassle getting a snapshot of Debian Testing to be stable for everybody's hardware configuration. I really don't know how one or two individuals could possibly do it, because again there is the need to test on a lot of different configurations.

I used to be one of the enthusiasts for the Testing base, but as my level of spare time declined, so did my tolerance for instability. I don't really notice a huge difference in the operating system between updates, so every couple of years is probably okay for everything except the Internet browser and things like Thunderbird or games.

I keep coming back to SolydX, because it's an interesting alternative to Xubuntu and Linux Mint Xfce. Xfce just seems like the ideal HTPC desktop to me, because of its low memory usage, stability and lack of problems (looking at you, KDE!), ease of customization, and the excellent support for custom actions in Thunar. Xfce has everything I need, although it may not be quite as pretty as KDE.

One of the issues with Xubuntu is that the 5-year LSR stays with a Franken-kernel for a long time, whereas SolydX will actually have a fresh kernel every 2 years due to Debian stable's more frequent release cycle. The alternative to Xubuntu's 5-year LSRs is to bump up to the temporary in-betweenies, but those could also come with new problems.
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BurritoBazooka
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby BurritoBazooka » 11 Oct 2014 23:20

daspicer wrote:I can always just plug what I have directly into Sid.
Is it possible to "plug what I have" into Testing (I'm aware of the freeze)? Debian's release cycle is still slightly confusing for me. Am I correct in thinking it's just a matter of changing my /etc/apt/sources.list file to Debian Testing's repositories and then letting apt-get update?

edit: While I'm here I might as well say something on-topic:

I think I'm okay with this. I always liked being downstream from some larger distro (used Linux Mint until about two days ago), the smaller community always brings nuances that I prefer more than the "big guy". I don't mean this in a bad way at all, but I think this distro can only get better over time - we don't know what changes the community will make to the Enthusiast Editions, and so on :)

What originally attracted me to SolydXK was precisely the semi-rolling release cycle that LMDE was doing away with (though I wasn't using LMDE, I was looking to switch to a Debian-based distro). Now that I see this announcement, I guess I'll have to live with the reality that there won't be a major Debian-based distro which will do semi-rolling release cycles, and that it is probably inefficient to do if you don't have (relatively) massive resources like the Debian Project has.

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fleabus
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby fleabus » 12 Oct 2014 00:43

Welcome to the forum! :)
BurritoBazooka wrote:Is it possible to "plug what I have" into Testing (I'm aware of the freeze)?
Sure, you can do that any time you want. See zerozero's (Freshly Updated!) Testing/Sid tutorial here:

http://forums.solydxk.nl/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=162
BurritoBazooka wrote:Now that I see this announcement, I guess I'll have to live with the reality that there won't be a major Debian-based distro which will do semi-rolling release cycles, and that it is probably inefficient to do if you don't have (relatively) massive resources like the Debian Project has.
For those of us who enjoy tinkering, that'll be the beauty of the EEs - you can roll your own, as fast or slow as you want. In effect it'll be the same thing as "plugging in" to Testing with what you have. For an idea of what that's like, you can take a look at the Testing Breakages Thread here:

http://forums.solydxk.nl/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=253

I should add that I can't recommend this if you need a stable system for production use, or if you're not one of us folks who is cursed with the tinkering mindset... :D

SolydForEver
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby SolydForEver » 13 Oct 2014 05:32

Schoelje wrote in his opening statement:

The rolling editions may turn out to be far less stable than the old Home Editions were meant to be, so staying with the new rolling repositories should be a conscious decision.

When bugs are found in this release will they somehow be corrected and used in this release? Will they also be used in the stable release? Is this something Solyd will do or Debian, or both, or neither?

The EE editions don't sound very appealing, knowing it is a testing edition of Debian converted into Solyd. At the moment I use the BE edition and I love it. It is stable, it does what it needs to do, it is great. I so hope this will stay like this forever.

Thanks team.

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Snap
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Snap » 13 Oct 2014 07:20

The thing is that if you use a static release, like Debian stable or Ubuntu to mention two typical examples, the packages are somewhat "frozen" the errors corrected and they only get security updates for a given period of time. In the Case of Debian, two years or thereabouts. The systems typically don't break because they are static and you can almost forget about mainteinance.

In other hand rolling releases like Debian testing, Sid or Arch, they are constantly upgraded and the new packages may cause issues. It doesn't mean that your system will necessarily break at some point. What it means is that they need constant attention. As it's usually said, Rolling releases need more attention than a jealous fiancee. So if anyone wants just do their work and forget about the system mantainance, go static. But you will be locked to the same software versions for two years. That's the price to pay for stability. You don't have to worry about mantainance but your software may go quite outdated in two years.

If you don't mind to be constantly tracking issues forever and being aware of what may case breakages and what it's safe to upgrade every single week or so. Then a rolling release would keep you up to date with the newest software. The drawback is that you have to be always on top of it.

There's no perfect of ideal formula for everyone. So anyone should make their choices. Personally the current HE or the future EE (aka rolling) are OK for me for most purposes, even my main desktop. Only for my DAW install I want a static release. Horses for courses.
This likely means that your installation is broken. -Mr Pixbuf.

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Zill
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Zill » 13 Oct 2014 10:10

^^^ +1

Don't use a rolling release (such as SolydXK EE) unless you can fix a broken system!

Fargo
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Fargo » 13 Oct 2014 16:14

SolydForEver wrote:... At the moment I use the BE edition and I love it. It is stable, it does what it needs to do, it is great. I so hope this will stay like this forever.

Thanks team.
SolydForEver - Welcome to the forum. If you like the BE (Business Edition), you will like the changes SolydXK is making. Basically the Business Edition will be the main edition. They are just dropping the name BE. The EE (Enthusiast Edition) will be a rolling edition based on Debian Testing that will replace the previous Home Edition that was semi-rolling.

So all you have to do is keep using your current BE. When Debian Jessie goes stable, SolydXK will have an update procedure that will update your BE to the new edition. As I understand it, Debian has had a method to update from one Stable release to the next for a long time, so the SolydXK update should be pretty easy for you.

Again, welcome to SolydXK. I think you will like it here.

SolydForEver
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby SolydForEver » 14 Oct 2014 09:56

Hello Fargo, I did get how things will be. I just wondered about the one line Schoelje wrote that the EE will be not as stable as the rolling release we have now. Then what is the use for the EE version/ Who wants a system which might crash often? What will be done with the info about the crashes? Will they be used by Debian or by Solyd to make the stable version even more stable? Questions Questions Questions

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Zill
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Zill » 14 Oct 2014 10:42

SolydForEver wrote:...Then what is the use for the EE version/ Who wants a system which might crash often?..
The clue is in the name - Enthusiasts Edition! This is aimed at two categories of users...

One group will simply be "Enthusiastic Users" who just want to have the latest and greatest software but are not using the machine(s) for anything critical and so breakage is not a problem for them. These users often welcome the challenge of fixing any breakages. ;-)

The other group are developers who will use EE to track down bugs and then, hopefully, help develop solutions which will be fed back into the appropriate SolydXK and/or Debian bug tracking systems. Note that Debian Testing (which EE is based on) will eventually become the next Debian Stable.

However, EE is not aimed at users who want (or need!) a system that "just works" and will continue to work reliably. This is the function of the SolydXK Main Edition.

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Snap
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Snap » 14 Oct 2014 10:44

I just wondered about the one line Schoelje wrote that the EE will be not as stable as the rolling release we have now.
For now the HE is updated every three months (the UPs are not always smooth, by the way). Those three months between UPs are quite stable because they're based on snapshots, so basically static for short periods. It's a semi-rolling formula that seems to be abandoned not only by Solyd. Other semi-rolling distros use different approaches, Like Chakra or KaOS, where the core of the system has a kinda UP every six months while the apps keep constantly rolling. This is another way to try to keep the system stable. Specific apps may go wrong and would need to get fixed or downgraded, but the system itself will keep going smooth. Constantly rolling the whole thing (System core and apps) is the Debian testing (and Sid) formula. This is why EE is more likely to be less stable than the current HE.
Then what is the use for the EE version/ Who wants a system which might crash often?
Being up to date instead of stuck with the very same software versions for at least two years. Rolling distros don't necessarily crash often if you are always on top of it. But you must be constantly on top of it. That constant attention is the real drawback for many more than the possible breakages themselves.
What will be done with the info about the crashes? Will they be used by Debian or by Solyd to make the stable version even more stable?
Nope. Stable and rolling are different worlds. Use different packages.

PS, zill was faster. 8-)
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HugoBruno
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby HugoBruno » 16 Oct 2014 21:47

Sad! However, I do understand.

My "solid and stable" HE will be replaced by a less stable, less solid and perhaps with my preferred sotware even not updated as frequently as with HE.

Such is life. Again, I do understand.

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Snap
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Snap » 16 Oct 2014 22:02

Nope. BE & HE will merge together into the main release while a new EE will be introduced directly tracking Testing. The software in the EE will be updated faster than the current 3 month UP cycle in the current HE.
This likely means that your installation is broken. -Mr Pixbuf.

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Zill
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Zill » 16 Oct 2014 22:05

HugoBruno wrote:Sad! However, I do understand.

My "solid and stable" HE will be replaced by a less stable, less solid and perhaps with my preferred sotware even not updated as frequently as with HE...
Not quite true!

The new SolydXK Main Edition will be more stable and more solid than HE. This is achieved by using mature software to ensure that most of the bugs are already hammered out. The downside is that this means that the software will generally not be upgraded again until the next Debian Stable is released.

OTOH, the new EE will be a true rolling release and so will be less stable and less solid than HE but with the advantage of more frequent software upgrades.

PS, Snap was faster. 8-)

HugoBruno
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby HugoBruno » 16 Oct 2014 23:43

Yes, I got it. However, the choice will now be between a) solid and stable, or b) updated software. Clear enough. Very understandable reasons, but stil sad for me.

toddgrim
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby toddgrim » 24 Oct 2014 23:22

So, should I panic?

I spent the past week trying out several Rolling releases and SolydXK is by far superior to every one I tested and is my new distro of choice! My compliments! But now I come across this post/thread and I hope I don't have to move on.

Reading this has confused as to what's in store. If you would be kind enough please explain exactly what the future changes will mean to your average "Home" user who just wants your stable rolling release?

Do I have to go back to testing or can I sleep well tonight?

HugoBruno
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby HugoBruno » 25 Oct 2014 00:27

I guess the planned future is very clear, with excellent explanations from the SolydXK team.

I also feel uneasy about the future. For users that absollutely MUST have a couple of up-to-date specific applications, these will now be available at some risk, and updating will sometimes require Linux expertise beyond that of most people (such as myself!)

The burden of maintainig SolydXK has been too much for a few persons, who also want to better focus their objectives. This is all very understandable. Also a pity, really, since this software has been as easy, solid and stable as, say, Mint. Plus, SolydXK does not require reinstalls, has a terrific forum support and an update cylce that has few Linux equivalents. I know. I have also tried several potential competiors, including those based on Arch or Gentoo. Solyd is, indeed, THE perfect package.

It is not easy to keep things updated and reasonably under control when dealing with a software world not dependent on a central ruler. MS and Apple have it easy (they also have larger teams!)

Let us wait and see what the future will really be. In the meantime, best wishes to the Solyd team. And thank you!!!

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Snap
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Snap » 25 Oct 2014 09:07

I also feel uneasy about the future. For users that absollutely MUST have a couple of up-to-date specific applications,
Well, if it's just a couple it's not a big deal. The problem is when you start to need a lot of them. That's when things can go coarse and the system gets complex to mantain. That's why I bailed out Wheezy a few months ago. It was starting to be a real mess. Solyd HE does it for me now. When the end of a Debian stable cycle gets close it's already quite outdated. But the first part of the cycle is just great and still close enough to the "latest and greatest" as they say.
This likely means that your installation is broken. -Mr Pixbuf.

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Zill
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Re: The future of SolydXK

Postby Zill » 25 Oct 2014 11:38

toddgrim wrote:... If you would be kind enough please explain exactly what the future changes will mean to your average "Home" user who just wants your stable rolling release?...
No Linux distro (including SolydXK) has ever issued a "stable rolling release". I suggest that you read this thread from the beginning as it should answer all your questions. However, to summarise...

The SolydXK HE semi-rolling release based on Debian Testing will be discontinued after the current Debian Testing becomes the new Debian Stable. You then have to choose between SolydXK based on Debian Stable or the new rolling SolydXK EE based on the new Debian Testing.

The software in SolydXK will then not change significantly until the next Debian Stable is released. SolydXK should be relatively bug-free and reliable.

The software in SolydXK EE may change as and when Debian Testing packages change. This can lead to breakage and therefore this release is not recommended for business-critical usage.


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