Important SolydXK news

Important informations about SolydXK including releases notes, forum rules and other anouncements
Deleted User 2764

Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Deleted User 2764 » 05 Dec 2014 12:25

@Schoelje: Typo. My bad. :oops: I meant 32-bit not 34. :lol: Will we still have 32-bit repos to build the isos from? Or what changes will 32-bit iso builders need to make?

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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 05 Dec 2014 13:08

All SolydXK applications are Python applications. Therefor the packages do not imply any architecture. There is just a single package that is typical for a certain architecture: solydk-info and solydx-info and they hardly change anything.

Updates will come when the repository is updated for both 32-bit and 64-bit. The rest is up to the community as long as it still looks and feels like SolydXK. The most important packages to accomplish that are:
  • solydx/k-info
  • solydx/k-system-adjustments
  • solydxk-system
  • solydxk-keyring


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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Deleted User 2764 » 05 Dec 2014 13:18

Thanks, Schoelje. Very useful info and a relief too since it means we probably can keep 32-bit support for quite awhile longer. :)

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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Rocky » 06 Dec 2014 23:41

Interesting points about 32-bit and 64-bit in general in this weeks reader comments to http://www.distrowatch.com/weekly.php?i ... 01&mode=67 - in particular comments 63,66, 77 forward.
"All that glisters is not gold" - Shakespeare "The Merchant of Venice"

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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Deleted User 2764 » 07 Dec 2014 00:15

Very interesting read, Rocky. Thanks for sharing.
#66 And they won't be able to go further 2038 after all ;)
Ah yes. It's been awhile before that nasty 32-bit Epoch Time/Y2K Bug cropped up in discussion. I have to admit he has a point. However, there are kludges that can be done, I'm sure, to keep things going. I remember in 1999 I had got a brand new computer (paid like $25 or $30 for shipping). It was part of those deals where you get a free eMachines desktop computer if you commit to 3 years of MSN online service for $19.99 per month (price lock). That machine served me very well and I more than fulfilled that contract! But I had got the computer because I was worried that the old machine I had (a home built computer with used 486SX/33 motherboard) would have that Y2K problem. Then there was software that needed patching, like BlueWave offline QWK/Mail reader for reading BBS/FidoNet messages! Those were the days! Now this whole date thing may rear it's ugly head again because...
#77 Some of the older systems, like IBM Thinkpads, are rock-solid and reliable, and they will probably run for a few more years
And that is so true! I got my ThinkPad T61 back in August 2007. That's a good 7 years ago. However, zerozero and others had pointed out that it is a 64-bit computer. I didn't even know that and was running 32-bit SolydK (and SolydX sometimes) on it thinking it was only a 32-bit computer! That was because it came with the 32-bit version of Windows Vista Home Premium pre-installed on it. So I naturally thought that is all it would handle. The 32-bit Solyd worked fine on it but now so does 64-bit SolydK. So even though the computer is 7 years old, it is not a 32-bit machine. I do plan to keep it for quite awhile longer but I do admit I have a tendency to need a new machine every 3 years because software and stuff on the web always seems to need more power or more this or more that. I probably would not have got the desktop if it weren't for the fact my HP laptop started having some hardware/case issues. I think while HP is a great brand, I do like them a lot, but I think virtually all PC manufacturer's bulid around this one concept to get people to buy more PCs because othey would lose (and I hear are losing) money if people keep the computers too long. That concept being:
#63 The general mentality today seems to be, "if it breaks, trash it, buy a new one".
And that means that new machines are all 64-bit. I wonder how long it will be before we will start to think about 128-bit machines? Dare I think it??

Meanwhile, I don't mind making 32-bit SolydK ISOs as long as the community needs them and I can keep making them. There are a lot of folks out there without a lot of funds and either have to make due with the old machines they already have or they have to buy pre-owned, refurbished and pretty old computers. And why not? Saves space at the landfill especially if all they do is web browsing, social network, homework, a few little games, online shopping, etc. and don't need a mega gaming or high powered multimedia production system. And even there, you can get some pretty cheap and yet suitable 64-bit computers, I have to admit.

But I think at least until 2038 (and that's a ways away yet!) there may still be a need for 32-bit computers. And by the time that day comes, maybe all we are typing on right now will definitely be way obsolete and we probably will be seeing the obsolescence of 64-bit computing or even computing as we currently know it!

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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 07 Dec 2014 07:45

Mr. Watson, who has written several articles on SolydXK before, has written an article on the "downfall" of LMDE and SolydXK: http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-future ... rivatives/


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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby fleabus » 07 Dec 2014 14:47

I suppose I just don't see "the drawbacks of Debian Stable" that Mr. Watson refers to. Having experienced both scenarios of which he speaks -- the never-ending quest for the latest and greatest, which requires workarounds for occasional breakages, or (as I prefer to think of it) the milder approach of Debian Stable, which requires workarounds to stay current with this or that preferred application -- either scenario has its pros and cons. Each user is free to choose based on his or her requirements.

Further, he seems to see this whole thing of dropping vetted update packs as some kind of disadvantage. I believe that the LMDE team came to the conclusion that they were doing a totally unjustified amount of work just to get to the same place one comes to by tracking Testing or Sid and simply avoiding certain updates until the problems are fixed. I'm sure the constant UP maintenance felt like running on a treadmill, and a sure path to eventual burnout. There are already several well maintained Sid distros, should one desire to stick with the latest and greatest, and let the devs deal with the major update problems and warnings. Should one choose not to go this route, there is already a perfectly good stable distribution, which can still be enhanced with LMDE or Solyd goodness.

Again, either solution will require its own set of workarounds, depending on use-case.

I think what we are seeing here is possibly just some wising up on the part of some savvy developers, the great majority of whom must do this as a labor of love, or as a hobby in their spare time. Just my 2c. I tend to take all technical journalism with a pretty big grain of salt.

Deleted User 2764

Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Deleted User 2764 » 07 Dec 2014 15:56

There was a theme in that article that we all know too well: Lots of work, too few devs. He did mention the end of 32-bit but he must have missed our recent posts that we do plan to try to keep 32-bit isos going. For now at least.

But that is the story with many Linux distros: It's great, people expect it to always be there, reliable, but don't realize the hard work (which I am sure everyone here do indeed appreciate) that the distro creators have to put in and the sacrifices to their lives that go with it. That I think is one of the drawbacks of a community based OS. No big company paying you to do that work. But it's also the advantage because you're free to do what you feel is right for the distro.

Imagine if this world wasn't so seeped in capitalism that people could use their time to do whatever they wanted without worry about how they will aquire everything else they need to survive and keep doing what they want to do? I think we'd be a lot farther along with things like Linux development.

But it's not a perfect world.

Now, the other point was "Why not just use Debian?" And as many pointed out before, we like the easy installation and the fact that the distro just works right out of the box for most people. Maybe people should stop relying on the distro to provide everything and distros could become layers that ease installation and use. Everything would be from Debian and distros only include their own tools/installer and maintain only that. Wonder if that would work (or is that what is being done now)? I see nothing wrong with that. Everything is done for the user. Distros such as Debian would be the "base" distros where people can use them to create distros, rather than to use as an actual desktop OS. This way the layer would be base distro creates the repos and maintains the software, and the distros can use that and add their own installers and stuff and that is what the end user would use. Seems many though want to avoid thinking along these lines and I think that also created confusion.

I have to admit, I came to SolydXK because it was "rolling". It means not having to reinstall the whole OS, and download and install all those programs I use every 3 - 6 months. But any system (even Windows) has an "End of Support Life" when you have no choice but to upgrade and the best way to do that to minimize breakages due to incompatibility with pre-installed software is to just start over with a fresh install. I didn't like this idea. I was faced with installing the latest Mint then a month or two later (that quickly) faced with another install for LTS, OR not having the necessary security updates and being possibly vulnerable to attacks, etc. (on Linux? What was I thinking??)

Now, I don't even have the UM installed. I just go and update whenever I think of it or hear there's some security flaw that MUST be taken care of. So I guess I'm back to what I was doing in the first place. I've also noticed some UPs really break things and you have to hunt down bugs.

So, I think a stable release is best after all (at least for me). I just have to find a procedure that works for downloading/installing the stuff I use (and some things need reconfiguring as config files can change from one version of software to another). Maybe streamline it more. I don't know.

I think it's an unavoidable reality that one has to re-install the OS every so often or things will break. I don't think any OS is immune to this (not Windows, not Apple and not even Linux, rolling or not). How often depends on the distro.

That said, while I could go back to Mint, I rather stick to SolydXK because of it's being based directly on Debian and not on Ubuntu. I like Ubuntu. We use those for servers at work. But for my desktops, I like just straight-up Debian via SolydK. It works for me quite well right now.

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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby fleabus » 07 Dec 2014 16:19

RavenLX wrote:I rather stick to SolydXK
I think everyone here knows how I feel about that.. :D
RavenLX wrote:Imagine if this world wasn't so seeped in capitalism that people could use their time to do whatever they wanted without worry about how they will aquire everything else they need to survive and keep doing what they want to do?
Why I enjoy Iain M. Banks' Culture novels so much... No such silly mundane thing as money, or even any longer a civilization based on need... Everyone just concentrates on bettering themselves. Or not. :lol: ;)

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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Deleted User 2764 » 07 Dec 2014 17:19

I don't read many novels (no time) so I never heard of that. But I think there was a similar theme in all the Star Trek shows/movies where it was not about currency but about exploration, discovery, enrichment and the adventures thereof. At least we do have novels to read even if we can't live in such a world right now. :)

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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Snap » 07 Dec 2014 18:03

I have to admit, I came to SolydXK because it was "rolling". It means not having to reinstall the whole OS, and download and install all those programs I use every 3 - 6 months.
Me too. :mrgreen: But I have to say that my computing life was never easier and trouble free than when I was on Debian Stable (Crunchbang). It started to change for the worse when I decided to add some of the latest and greatest to the equation and made a mess of my system. Then jumped into the SolydXK UP schema. Best of both worlds? Yes, to some extent. It was fine for me. Sure not for others.
I've also noticed some UPs really break things and you have to hunt down bugs.
True. UPs were rarely smooth. We have the corresponding UP associated threads here dealing with the issues. As you said, nothing is perfect. One must choose his own best option. My best can be your worse and viceversa, and none of them choices will ever be perfect. Thankfully we have the choices, and as we know for sure (and own experience), SolydXK still gives one of the best distro experiences available.

At this point, UPs have gone and we are facing a freshly released (very up-to-date) Debian Stable right at the next corner. Going back to a breakages free system for my main desktop sounds like a welcome thing. Not for Mr. Watson, Obviously, but good enough for me. I have some more experience now and perhaps the next time I decide to add some latest and greatest when Jessie starts to feel old to me, maybe I manage not making a mess of my system. Time will tell. :mrgreen:
This likely means that your installation is broken. -Mr Pixbuf.

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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Deleted User 2764 » 07 Dec 2014 18:47

I was able to update to the latest KDE in Mint, I remember, and used KDE's PPA, as well as GIMP and Blender PPAs instead of the Mint Repos. I really never had much problems doing that. It worked well. But I guess I was lucky. :)

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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby fleabus » 07 Dec 2014 18:54

Most of the disparaging comments I hear wrt Debian Stable really do go a bit over the top, as if folks forget that it actually does get updated/replaced... Lately I'm enjoying the calm of running Stable, as I'm sure I'll enjoy the same after the freeze/bug-stomping, and Jessie is finally released. With a new release there'll be new issues, and all that entails. Maybe I'm showing my age, and after all the fun of the last year or so, would rather deal with that every couple years instead of every couple months? I don't know. Here I speak only as regards production systems. I still love my tinkering, but haven't had as much time lately, what with car repairs and approaching holiday madness...

@Raven, Yes, Roddenberry was King! :)

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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Rocky » 07 Dec 2014 20:49

RavenLX wrote: ...........Maybe people should stop relying on the distro to provide everything and distros could become layers that ease installation and use. Everything would be from Debian and distros only include their own tools/installer and maintain only that. Wonder if that would work (or is that what is being done now)?..............This way the layer would be base distro creates the repos and maintains the software, and the distros can use that and add their own installers and stuff and that is what the end user would use. Seems many though want to avoid thinking along these lines and I think that also created confusion.
Since I started with Linux this always seemed to me to be the desirable way but I can't understand why as you say many seem to avoid this approach. Wouldn't it be great if Debian based distros "traded" on the Debian link ( "powered by Debian") and stressed that their added value is the customisation provided by the e.g. the solyd packages. Start with a Debian Live ISO and then add the custom packages from own repos. At one time I think there was a plan to mirror the entire Debian repos to solydxk repos ( which to me seemed to be duplication) but now that the plan seems to be to point directly to the Debian repos with the solydx repos only providing the customised solydxk adjustments this seems to be very close to the layered approach you speak of.

My ideal if it was possible would be install "pure" Debian ( from the Debian Live project) and simply add the SolydXK repos (to the sources.list) containing the SolydXK "skin"/customisations as an overlay .

The downside (for me) of the great "choice" that many speak of in Linux is the fragmentation caused by so many distros.
"All that glisters is not gold" - Shakespeare "The Merchant of Venice"

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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Deleted User 2764 » 08 Dec 2014 01:23

Rocky wrote:The downside (for me) of the great "choice" that many speak of in Linux is the fragmentation caused by so many distros.
I think that may be what scares away many Windows and Mac users from trying LInux. Which one? Though lately there's been emphesis on the "Big 3" or "Big Few" as it were (ie. Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch, Debian, CentOS, Mint). But many people tell those thinking about switching OSs just tell these folks "Just go to distrowatch.com and pick one." Big mistake. They go there and probably send 2.9 seconds and leave, then borrow from a few friends and family to raise $200 for an upgrade to their existing OS.

DistroWatch is great for keeping up with the distros in a sense, but I think it's got too confusing. I think DistroWatch should be for those who want to take the next step in seeing what's out there. For new users, I would tell them to just go to SolydXK.com, burn a DVD of SolydK (or SolydX if they have an older machine) and install that, then come joing the forums for tech support and learning. :)

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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby enorbet2 » 05 Jan 2015 18:43

Greetings
As most laborers of love (no, not streetwalkers :P) soon realize if it akes considerable time, and most love labors do, it's worth compensation and with enough time that can devolve into "Keep ur kudos, show me the money" LOL. Other than my willingness to buy a prebuilt DVD or a sweet T-Shirt I can't offer much in the money department but I do have a nice kudo for you.

I've been working in Linux since 1999 and within a year gravitated to Slackware, which is still my main, but I do like to keep my hand in play and when I heard about this KISS method but modern distro, especially that addresses the growth niche of gaming, I had to try it out. It's very good, but that's not the kudo.

I have recommended SolydXK at numerous forums but several times at Overclockers.net Linux section and also at LinuxQuestions.org. LQ is an "OG" having been around a very long time and with thousands of members on regularly all the way from the Ubuntu crowd to Enterprise and Scientific distros and users. Every year LQ does a huge Poll section on "Best of the year" in about 25 categories.

The results aren't in yet but this year SolydXK was added to the poll. It's a hard world to put a dent in, yet you have one with your name on it. Kudos and Happy New Year for you and yours :)

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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 05 Jan 2015 19:56

Hi enorbet2, and welcome to our forum.

Thank you very much for the compliment and the heads up.
I must confess, I'd have a little party if SolydXK comes out best, but I suspect it's an Arch party to begin with :D
It's good to see that the hard work is noticed, though.


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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Deleted User 2763 » 06 Jan 2015 17:57

I just read the article from ZDNet.

He states
At this point I was starting to wonder if it was still worthwhile to run Linux Mint Debian Edition rather than just running Debian itself.
I sounds like 1) he's never been a part of a dynamic forum. 2) undervalues the tweaks/modifications that a distro developer does and 3) doesn't realize that with a Debian base, you can choose stable, testing, sid, experimental (or the Toy Story character) to set the amount of churn you want.

1) duh
2) lots of XFCE/KDE polish here (and DDM)
3) other non-Debian distros might provide 1 other "testing" release (like Fedora/Red Hat) but a Debian base is very flexible.

-Hinto

Edit: setting SolydXK sources.list/sources.list.d to sid/siduction and it rolls just fine.

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Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby kurotsugi » 09 Jan 2015 08:37

3) doesn't realize that with a Debian base, you can choose stable, testing, sid, experimental (or the Toy Story character) to set the amount of churn you want
solydxk doesn't affected by gtk3 breakages so the user can move into whatever development branch they want (or even whatever debian based distro they want) but since LMDE only offer cinnamon and mate version the situation is different and user can't move into other branch. the reason is:
1. gtk3 breakage. LMDE's cinnamon got broken for every gtk3 got updated. mate is now using some gtk3 stuff so it will affected with gtk3 breakages too.
2. LMDE's cinnamon and mate isn't compatible with debian's. it means that we can't upgrade LMDE's cinnamon/mate to debian's cinnamon/mate.
3. LMDE's default configuration have 100% guarantee it will broken if you move into other development branch. luckily, it's a simple apt-pinning issue which could be easily solved.

Deleted User 2763

Re: Important SolydXK news

Postby Deleted User 2763 » 09 Jan 2015 13:54

I'm currently rolling SolydK on siduction.
No worries.
-H


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