Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

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MoldMe
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Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby MoldMe » 07 May 2014 20:30

I read in a post on one of the forums that Update Manager is the recommended method of performing updates on a SolydXK system. Why is that? What benefit is Update Manager over apt-get or aptitude, my preferred methods of performing system updates on a Debian-based distro.

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ScottQuier
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Re: Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby ScottQuier » 07 May 2014 20:47

The "buy-line" for SolydXK is "Linux desktop made easy."

For many, especially those coming from MS, the idea of managing/administering a system using the CLI just scares them bloodless. The UM is designed to make much easier the job of keeping the installation up-to-date. And, for most people (the vast majority of them) it works a real treat.

There are others, like you and me and fleabus and ...., who cut their teeth on the command-line interface and would much prefer to open a terminal, type out a couple of commands and be done with it. And, for the most part, that's all that's needed. However, there are times when the UP will require a couple of extra steps. These extra steps are always outline in the UP information. Warning: Fail to read that information before the dist-upgrade at your own risk :D

And, it's these extra steps that the UM is designed to handle for those choosing to use it.

I will grant you there are still a couple of bugs in the UM, but Schoelje continues to work hard to kill those pesky things.
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Re: Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby zerozero » 07 May 2014 20:56

yep, this ^ ;)

the updatemanager is a convenient and easy point&click way of keeping the system up-to-date (without the notion that linux needs the CLI for every single task)

furthermore, the pre and post-update tasks that it performs can in many situations be the difference between success and disaster.
bliss of ignorance

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MoldMe
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Re: Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby MoldMe » 07 May 2014 21:44

zerozero wrote:...furthermore, the pre and post-update tasks that it performs can in many situations be the difference between success and disaster.
Tasks such as...?

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Re: Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby fleabus » 07 May 2014 22:47

MoldMe wrote:Tasks such as...?
If you look at the UP info page for each given UP, it goes thru "Updating with Update Manager", "Updating with Terminal", and "Read this whether you update with Terminal or UM".

So. For example:
Updating with the terminal

We recommend using the Update Manager to update your system, but if you prefer using the terminal, please read the below steps carefully.

Pre upgrade
Download and run the following script as su
: http://home.solydxk.nl/umfiles/tst/pre-up-2014.04.15[/color]
This will install, and configure the new Firefox, Thunderbird, and several other packages in preparation of the upgrade. It also copies the included add-ons to existing users directories if they do not already exist.

Now you can run dist-upgrade.
This is the kind of thing UM takes care of so that you don't have to; pre- and post-upgrade scripts and various useful whatnots that someone brand new to the whole mess, or someone who just plain prefers the GUI method is not likely to want to be concerned with. For those new to Solyd or to Linux in general UM makes the UP process as painless as possible. :D

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Re: Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby MoldMe » 07 May 2014 23:56

fleabus wrote:This is the kind of thing UM takes care of so that you don't have to; pre- and post-upgrade scripts and various useful whatnots that someone brand new to the whole mess, or someone who just plain prefers the GUI method is not likely to want to be concerned with. For those new to Solyd or to Linux in general UM makes the UP process as painless as possible. :D
Agreed. The only problem with that is that they get spoiled and never learn the power of the command line or possibly how to fix things if Update Manager borks something. I've read some posts in the forums where Update Manager doesn't always work correctly, although I didn't read any of the posts in detail to find out what didn't work.

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Re: Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby fleabus » 08 May 2014 00:23

MoldMe wrote:I've read some posts in the forums where Update Manager doesn't always work correctly, although I didn't read any of the posts in detail to find out what didn't work.
Shoelje recently did a complete rewrite of UM, and it is still in heavy development. He along with Scott and zz et al. have also been actively involved with helping folks out with the issues all along. There for a while a new version was issued almost daily! They're still in the process of bug-stomping. I'm confident that these things will smooth out; they always do, or another solution is implemented.

When one backs off and looks at Debian Testing as a whole there's a constant game of whack-a-mole being played with issues that arise all the time as hardware and software is constantly updated. All things considered Schoelje and crew are doing a remarkable job and always have. Sometimes it's been necessary for them to bring in stuff from Sid. Sometimes they backport from Wheezy. Not to mention fixing all the issues with KDEnext, Xfcenext, display drivers, UEFI, latest versions of popular apps... you name it. They do all that to give us a repo full of stuff that works, so we don't have to -- unless we want to.

It's good to point out the issues. They get fixed. Sometimes immediately. Sometimes it takes a bit of time. Sometimes it's just time to chuck an old app and rewrite it from the ground up -- in which case there will be growing pains... :D
MoldMe wrote:they get spoiled and never learn the power of the command line
No longer as necessary as it used to be, but of course, point taken. :) I support some folks who don't even know what an OS is. I get fewer calls from them than I get from those that do... :D

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Re: Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby rokytnji » 08 May 2014 00:32

Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?
I think basically because most new, clueless, struggling members don't
Siduction
or
SolydX (with Openbox)
which I am quite comfy myself with, but many moons ago. I was a clueless,struggling, new linux user myself.

Say use smxi, sgfxi to a new user and see the. :?

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Re: Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby MoldMe » 08 May 2014 01:04

rokytnji wrote:Say use smxi, sgfxi to a new user and see the. :?
I'm not a new user and I have stayed away from the smxi and sgfxi scripts because:

01) I don't completely understand what they do or how to use them
02) I don't appreciate the advantage of using them

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Re: Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby Orbmiser » 08 May 2014 04:14

Use neither of the methods if possible and rely on Apper for KDE and have had zero issues with updates or installing software. As Solydxk updater is still going thru growing pains.

I am no longer capable of retention learning and retaining the mechanics of cryptic commands & strange alien flags! :?

If I was 20 or 30 or even 40 again wouldn't be an issue. As back in 94 or 95 learned quite a bit as was forced to with Red Hat 5.0 on my weird Sharp Widenote with uncommon Wide perspective screen and much monking with xorg.config. But now days it's more about ease of use with minimal keyboard work more mouse centric with my old knarly arthritic fingers and hands.

And my main aim nowadays is application use for my photo editing with darktable,web browsing and email,listen to music watch a youtube or movie. Organize my e-books and read or study the stars with Stellarium.

And like to experience new things but the terminal isn't one of them. As it is impossible for me presently to retain all those cryptic alien hieroglyphics and would forget them after using them. It's good they are there under the hood when needed. But for me not much need if my desktop and apps are running normally. And the main term commands I might run from time to time is sensors,top or glances,etc... without cryptic flags and such. Or to follow instructions for something that can only be done from the terminal.

Not afraid of the Terminal just not wanting to use it unless absolutely necessary.
Cuz! I lazy Old Fart! :o
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Re: Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby MoldMe » 08 May 2014 07:00

@Orbmiser...I appreciate your honesty. I'm not the young lad I used to be either. ;) Cars I remember from my childhood are now eligible for antique license plates. :o

I seem to retain things in memory better after I've used them frequently. Otherwise, I refer to my databases of tips, including Linux, created with Treepad. Treepad is a Windows program mainly, but runs very well under Wine. They have a version for Linux, but you can only store text in the databases, no Rich Text content and no images. There may be other features missing in the Linux version as well, but I've never used it, so I can't say for sure.

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Re: Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby Orbmiser » 08 May 2014 07:16

MoldMe wrote: I seem to retain things in memory better after I've used them frequently. Otherwise, I refer to my databases of tips,.
Yep back in 2006-08 when using Ubuntu had a text file with commands and flags,etc.. that I could open copy and paste into the terminal. But got to thinking what was the point as the time to open the text file find the command and paste in terminal. And was always figuring out what to add to the list and time wasted keeping it updated. And wasn't any faster then going into the menu and just launching an app and doing what I needed to get done.

But to each their own and what brings pleasure and satisfaction to getting things done on their desktop is the right way for them. Just glad the power is there under the hood if I need it.
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Re: Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby fleabus » 08 May 2014 11:22

Orbmiser wrote:I am no longer capable of retention learning and retaining the mechanics of cryptic commands ... If I was 20 or 30 or even 40 again wouldn't be an issue.
What a wonderful eloquent post. Ditto, completely, to all of that. Though I did indeed "cut my teeth" on command line, I am no longer that 20 thru about 45-year-old command line whiz-kid. I have to look up again and again so many things I used to know by heart, by virtue of having used them on a daily basis. I retired, it's all got that definite shelf life, and "use it or lose it" is evermore apt. With encroaching old creakiness and general ill health, much more of it drops off the far edge than one wants to lose. Indeed, that far edge approaches ever nearer! I wish I could just effortlessly retain that eternal sharpness of mind that my dad still has at 86. OTOH he was never a "geek". Hmmm. Was I? Interesting... :lol:
MoldMe wrote:Cars I remember from my childhood are now eligible for antique license plates. :o
Gawd yes.. How frightening! :lol:

@MoldMe, re Command-line usage, a little something I get a kick out of:

http://forums.solydxk.nl/viewtopic.php? ... ets#p20394

http://forums.solydxk.nl/viewtopic.php? ... ets#p24883

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Re: Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby MoldMe » 09 May 2014 06:03

The first link...priceless! I got a great laugh reading it. I'm not sure I agree with everything he says, but whatever.

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fleabus
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Re: Why Is Update Manager Recommended for Updates?

Postby fleabus » 09 May 2014 06:26

MoldMe wrote:The first link...priceless!
Graybyrd is such a wonderful writer, and I love reading his posts. He doesn't post much, I wish we saw more of him. Don't agree with it all either, but a lot of it definitely struck a chord in me. As Heinlein said, I never learned anything from someone who agreed with me... :lol: That said, I learn a lot from everyone here, young or old, new or veteran... It's a great place to call home.


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