LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

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mspitteler
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LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby mspitteler » 14 Jan 2014 23:42

I wonder if in the future SolydX may follow Mint Xfce way about setting default office package to LibreOffice. Many new users are to be gained who are 'Windows refugees' and a 'true' complete office package would make the transition easier for them. Most modern computers can handle LibreOffice quite easily and if someone is skilled enough to keep a Pentium III productive today he/she would have no problem installing Abiword/Gnumeric if needed. I'm curious about how many people actually use these and how many install LibreOffice right after OS setup. Just my 2 cents...

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Paulh
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby Paulh » 15 Jan 2014 09:15

I see what you mean, the first thing I always do after installing XFCE is remove gnumric and abiword and install Libreoffice. Don't use most of it, but it's good to have it ready.

But...and I don't mean to be difficult, by the same token if someone can install gnumeric and abiword then they can also install Libreoffice ;)

Be interesting to know how other think on this?


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jdhedden
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby jdhedden » 15 Jan 2014 17:06

It appears to me that LibreOffice is becoming (or actually is) a Linux de-facto standard. I support the suggestion to remove Abiword and Gnumeric and replace them with LibreOffice as the standard SolydX installation.
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fkef
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby fkef » 15 Jan 2014 21:19

+1

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wisemagic
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby wisemagic » 16 Jan 2014 06:06

Hi

If you use spread sheets, ( Calc in LibreOffice ) conditional formatting is broken and has been broken since right after the release of 3.5.7
Version 3.5.7 was when they decided to break it, by regressing to format that was out dated years ago.
I have a VirtualBox with version 3.5.7 that I never allow to update. ( The last version that didn't have the conditional format bug )

Bugzilla – Bug 60573 was filed on 2-10-2013. Bug still present version Version: 4.2.0.0 per bugzilla report.
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60573
In almost a year, this bug has been mostly ignored. I have not tested to see if the regressive style of doing the conditional formatting has been corrected, but if they do fix the scrolling problems, but keep the regressive manner of doing conditional formatting, I will stay with version 3.5.7.

If you don't need Calc or you don't need to do conditional formatting in Calc, then the latest version should be ok for you.

I find the developers of LibreOffice a bit slow in bug fixes, and I also find that new versions, are more important than working versions. ( In my opinion)

A lot of great features came in 3.5.7 like unlimited conditional formats, whereas Excel has a conditional format limit of 3 conditions, as of v2003. I've not tried MS Office since v2003.

I do a lot of spread sheet work. and this is the first time I have seen a regressive style called an upgrade.

A Qoute from a LibreOffice Developer:

"Markus Mohrhard 2013-02-14 20:41:42 UTC
I suppose I need to look into that one at some point.

This one might become nasty because I had to add some really ugly hacks to make the dialog modal. This might be the reason why we are no longer able to scroll in the dialog. However we should not return to modeless dialogs for the reference edit dialogs as this causes some nasty problems and will kill the current design of how the conditional format dialogs work together."

The reason I call the so called upgrade a regression is this: It worked perfectly until they "Updated" it. And for them to release newer versions only stands to prove, they did absolutely no testing before releasing this bug. No developer would release a crippled version, if there had been some testing done first. Of all the things that needed to be updated or fixed, this was certainly not one of them, and it set me back weeks getting my sheets, and my customers sheets working again.

I understand that these things do happen in open source, but to go for almost a year without fixing is just a little over the edge. ( Again, My Opinion )

Just a heads up.
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mspitteler
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby mspitteler » 17 Jan 2014 01:51

Interesting. Some heavy users of MS Office 2013 who are also users of LibreOffice say that Calc is very slow compared to Excel 2013 in the same hardware when spreadsheets are BIG. Also they complain about something that goes by the name "pivot tables" that are very rudimentary in Libre. I use mainly very small and simple sheets so I can't give an opinion.
But as we can't run MS Office in linux nothing of these things really matter regarding default office package in SolydX unless Gnumeric is superior to Calc. Any heavy spreadsheet user has matcched these two?
Regards.

mspitteler
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby mspitteler » 17 Jan 2014 01:57

BTW, I just tested conditional formatting in Calc Version 3.6.2.2 (Build ID: 360m1(Build:2)) and it worked perfectly.

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wisemagic
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby wisemagic » 17 Jan 2014 02:29

Hi,

Yes that is another glitch that I didn't touch on. Calc ( v3.5.7 that I use ) doesn't seem to understand multicore cpu's. And yes, Calc is slow to say the least.
(The Intel i7 3930 Sandy Bridge is 6 Cores. Each core runs 2 threads. Most all of the older i3 & I5 cpu were 1 thread per core. Although some were hyperthreaded too. I don't recall which ones.)

So Linux see it as 12 cores. Calc will max out a thread and hold it until a task is done. Normally, most apps will push a thread to 80% and begin bringing in more threads as needed or switch out to another thread as the heat rises. ( The 80% is adjustable thru some tweaking, but that is not the topic at hand ). They may have addressed this in later versions, I'm not sure though. I have more than enough power and memory to slam these spread sheets, but Calc doesn't have the capabilities to use my system efficiently.

Right now I'm stuck with 3.5.7. The conditional formatting allows unlimited conditions. BUT MSOffice I believe still limits the conditional format to 3 conditions. Many of my spread sheets have 4 to 8 conditional formats. To go back and run Win7 in a VirtualBox, with MS Office would require me to re write my sheets, because all conditional formats beyond 3 would be lost.... Thatis a lot of work.

Gnumeric, Gnome Office, KOffice, and OpenOffice all are limited to 3 conditions.. OpenOffice will open the sheets, but I still lose conditions.

My main sheet is 4.5 mb, with my system 25+ seconds or more to open it, or save it. That is 6 cores ( Overclocked to 4.0 GHz), 16Gig Memory and an SSD. I find that unacceptable. Calc is the slowest software on this machine.

This sheet started on a 2.3 Ghz dual core MacBook Pro with 3 gig memory in OpenOffice in 2009. It was faster than my current machine running LibreOffice Calc. My sheet does a good many calculations, but basically it is a stats collection/analyzing spread sheet. It is really not all that complex or complicated. The formulas are not excessive. Basic add, subtract multiply and divide. That is why the poor performance of Calc bothers me so much. Pivot Tables do work, but the inefficiency of Calc still lags in performance.

My goal at this time is to move this project to MySQL and have all calculations done either in Python or C++, both of which I am still learning. MySQL is in the bag, as I've done a good many MySQL/PHP websites. Once I can get set in MySQL/C++ or Python, Calc will just be a bad memory to me.

Gnumeric will open the sheet, but most all formatting is whacked. Not even an option.

In Calc Version 3.6.2.2, are you able to do a conditional format, and scroll down to reference a cell that is not in view or reference a cell in another sheet or tab of the work book?
The main problem has been, if the cell you want to compare to or reference, is not in view, you cant scroll or go to another page of that spread sheet. You are locked to the view that you see when you open the conditional format dialog box. You cannot scroll to any cell that is not in view.

Example: Make a conditional format in cell A1, and try to scroll to A100
Or Make a conditional format in cell A1, and try to scroll to AF1.
Or Make a conditional format in cell A1, and try to select another page (tab) in the workbook.

That is what is being explained in the bugzilla report.

EDIT:
On Debian Wheezy they are running 3.5.4. Conditional formatting is working just fine.
On LinuxMint they are running 4.1.3.2 Conditional formatting is broken.
A fresh install of SolydX, in a VirtualBox with all updates, and Libreoffice installed thru Synaptic, Calc v4.1.4.2,
Conditional formatting is broken.
I see no speed increase or enhanced performance in any of the 4.x.x.x versions vs the 3.x.x.x versions. ( So Far )

Once again, If you have no need for Calc, or have no need for conditional formatting in Calc, you should be OK. I consider Calc to be crippled in cpu usage, memory usage, and of course the conditional formatting. It is not very efficient, at all. ( In my opinion )

( Sorry for the rant ) :)
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brunod
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby brunod » 01 Feb 2014 15:09

jdhedden wrote:It appears to me that LibreOffice is becoming (or actually is) a Linux de-facto standard. I support the suggestion to remove Abiword and Gnumeric and replace them with LibreOffice as the standard SolydX installation.
+1 +10 +... ! But what about the language config ? We still all have to tweak it to get our native and remove other.
"Perfection is finally attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove." AdSE

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GeneC
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby GeneC » 01 Feb 2014 15:27

Well I guess I have to stand up for the loyal opposition... :lol:
Too much useless stuff for me. Abiword and Gnumeric are more than enough. I also get aggravated with the numerous constant upgrades (and huge downloads) that seem to occur way to often with LibreOffice. Its a simple enough upgrade for those who really need (want) it.
Leave as is... 8-)
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MAYBL8
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby MAYBL8 » 01 Feb 2014 15:38

Is there a feature comparison somewhere to see what Libre can do that the others can't?


mspitteler
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby mspitteler » 01 Feb 2014 18:49

I think there is a consensus that both Abiword/Gnumeric combo or LibreOffice are more ore less enough to most office needs except for a troublesome reality of life---MOST PEOPLE USE MS OFFICE and there are still file-level COMPATIBILITY issues. I'm a heavy user of MS Word. I recently prepared a low to medium complexity document in Writer in my linux laptop (20 pages, some inserted JPGs) and had serious formatting issues when opening the document in several versions of Word. In any professional context, i.e. anywhere your livelihood is at a stake, THIS IS COMPLETELY UNACEPTABLE. If people receive poorly formatted documents, they will pin it on YOU, not your word processor. I'm not qualified enough to give an opinion on Calc/Excel compatibility but from reading in different forums seems to me that the situation is even worse. Until there is 100% compatibility with MS Office formats (Word, Excel, Powerpoint) this will continue to hinder use of linux in the office and relegate it to a nerd's toy for safe homebanking.

mspitteler
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby mspitteler » 01 Feb 2014 19:20

To put my previous post on topic, the package to select is not the one with the more features but the one with better compatibility with its MS Office counterpart at file-level. Thanks a lot for your opinions.

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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby kurotsugi » 01 Feb 2014 20:02

+1

libreoffice is largely used as default package in many linux distro. it will attract more user to solydX if we shipped it as default productivity suite.

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Zill
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby Zill » 01 Feb 2014 20:19

mspitteler wrote:...I recently prepared a low to medium complexity document in Writer in my linux laptop (20 pages, some inserted JPGs) and had serious formatting issues when opening the document in several versions of Word. In any professional context, i.e. anywhere your livelihood is at a stake, THIS IS COMPLETELY UNACEPTABLE. If people receive poorly formatted documents, they will pin it on YOU, not your word processor...
Slightly off-topic but when I used to use MS Word in my working life, my colleagues and I often experienced similar compatibility problems between different versions of MS Word or even documents produced by the same version but on a different machine!

Unless all the users of a document have the same fonts installed and use the same templates, it is highly likely that the layouts of documents will differ. There are some ways of minimizing these problems, such as by using styles properly and by embedding fonts within the document, but these are all "features" that make sharing Word files very frustrating. Maybe more recent versions of Word do not have these problems - but I somehow doubt it. ;-)

If you really want to preserve formatting then the best bet is to save the file as a .pdf. The down-side is that the recipient cannot then edit the file!

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civfreak
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby civfreak » 21 Feb 2014 20:10

Paulh wrote:I see what you mean, the first thing I always do after installing XFCE is remove gnumric and abiword and install Libreoffice. Don't use most of it, but it's good to have it ready.

But...and I don't mean to be difficult, by the same token if someone can install gnumeric and abiword then they can also install Libreoffice ;)

Be interesting to know how other think on this?
I agree...I use libreoffice and prefer it, but I don't think it's a big deal if the team want's to lighten the download a little...but generally I'd give a +1 to libre office. I use a lot of spreadsheets, and I had a problem once with gnumeric and darned if I can remember it now as it was a few years ago....but anyway.... ;)
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smitty1
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby smitty1 » 21 Feb 2014 21:31

Even though I am in the camp that removes Abiword and Gnumeric immediately, I vote to leave them as the defaults in SolydX. I think that Abiword and Gnumeric are a better fit to the purpose of SolydX, a small, fast, minimalist distribution.
No Set of defaults can satisfy everyone and it is easy enough to install or learn to install software from the repositories.
It is also a way to customize SolydX to fit each indvidual's setup by for instance installing only Writer, or only Calc, or any other combination.
Just my two cents.

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mspitteler
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby mspitteler » 22 Feb 2014 00:13

Having researched the matter intensively in the last few days I think I will retract the Subject of my original post. I have found a much better solution to the MS Office compatibility issue. A German firm that goes by the name SoftMaker markets a product named SoftMaker Office 2012. They are making MS Office (Word) clones since the DOS days and focus on COMPATIBILITY with MS Office file formats. They didn't climb to the stupid "Ribbon" interface that MS is pushing down the users' throats since MS Office 2007 and they keep the SAA/CUA compliant interface of MS Office 2003. AND THEY HAVE A LINUX VERSION!!! The full suite is much less costly than MS Office, you can download a free 30-day trial and if this were not enough, they have a FREE version named FreeOffice 2012 with Word, Excel and Powerpoint equivalents. The only difference in the free version I was able to find is that the free version can read the docx, xlsx and pptx but not save to them. The free version can save to .doc, .xls and .ppt binary formats with high accuracy (this is stated in several independant reviews). The program is a modern one with frequent updates. Opens MS Office 2010 files without a hiccup. Also handles LibreOffice/OpenOffice files. Besides, it is much, much, much I mean MUCH faster than LibreOffice!!! It is free as in beer, not open source, but I'm no FLOSS fundamentalist. The price of $0 pretty much wraps the issue up for me. I don't want to put links to their download site lest this post be tagged as spam, but anyone interested can google it easily enough.
Best regards.

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Longshot
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby Longshot » 09 Mar 2014 04:42

First thing I did was get LIbreOffice.

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ScottQuier
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Re: LibreOffice as default office package in SolydX

Postby ScottQuier » 09 Mar 2014 13:47

mspitteler wrote:Having researched the matter intensively in the last few days I think I will retract the Subject of my original post. I have found a much better solution to the MS Office compatibility issue. A German firm that goes by the name SoftMaker markets a product named SoftMaker Office 2012.
.
.
.
.
It is free as in beer, not open source, but I'm no FLOSS fundamentalist. The price of $0 pretty much wraps the issue up for me. I don't want to put links to their download site lest this post be tagged as spam, but anyone interested can google it easily enough.
Best regards.
I looked around their site and couldn't find a link to anything that was free except for their 30-day free trial. Did I miss something?
Scott
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