[SOLVED] No performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

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ScottQuier
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[SOLVED] No performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby ScottQuier » 23 Nov 2013 20:30

OK ... some folks have replaced sysvinit with systemd and seen some significant system boot speed improvement (see --> http://forums.solydxk.nl/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=1395)

So I figured I would give it a spin with a fresh SolydX 201311 ISO install.

Installed the system, Plymouth is disabled. Reboot, login to my account to to make sure timings aren't being caused by account set up, etc. Reboot and login. Reboot again.

The machine:

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inxi -Fxxx
System:    Host: sysinit Kernel: 3.10-3-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit, gcc: 4.7.3) 
           Desktop: Xfce 4.10.2 (Gtk 2.24.18) info: xfce4-panel dm: lightdm Distro: SolydXK 1 testing
Machine:   Mobo: ASUSTeK model: SABERTOOTH 990FX R2.0 version: Rev 1.xx
           Bios: American Megatrends version: 1503 date: 01/11/2013
CPU:       Octa core AMD FX-8320 Eight-Core (-MCP-) cache: 16384 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm) bmips: 56188.2 
           Clock Speeds: 1: 3511.768 MHz 2: 3511.768 MHz 3: 3511.768 MHz 4: 3511.768 MHz 5: 3511.768 MHz 6: 3511.768 MHz 7: 3511.768 MHz 8: 3511.768 MHz
Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA G73 [GeForce 7600 GT] bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:0391 
           X.Org: 1.14.3 drivers: nouveau (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) Resolution: 1600x1200@60.0hz, 1600x1200@60.0hz 
           GLX Renderer: Gallium 0.4 on NV4B GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa 9.2.2 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio:     Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) 
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:14.2 chip-ID: 1002:4383 
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture ver: k3.10-3-amd64
Network:   Card: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller 
           driver: r8169 ver: 2.3LK-NAPI port: b000 bus-ID: 0a:00.0 chip-ID: 10ec:8168
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: 60:a4:4c:62:25:19
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 204.1GB (20.5% used)
           1: id: /dev/sda model: WDC_WD2000JS size: 200.0GB serial: WD-WMANL1136184 
           2: USB id: /dev/sdf model: Card_Reader size: 4.0GB serial: 058F63666438-0:0 
Partition: ID: / size: 58G used: 3.9G (8%) fs: ext4 ID: swap-1 size: 8.59GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 15.6C mobo: N/A gpu: 46.0 
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A 
Info:      Processes: 199 Uptime: 21 min Memory: 520.5/15987.0MB Runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 4.8.2 alt: 4.6/4.7 
           Client: Shell (bash 4.2.45 running in xfce4-terminal) inxi: 1.9.14 
Time from pressing <Enter> at GRUB to the LightDM greeter with the "standard", nothing added (ran apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade just to be sure), nothing removed install was right at 30s. I was able to duplicate this timing in the next 3 successive reboots.

Then:

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# apt-get install systemd systemd-ui systemd-sysv
# apt-get remove --purge hal hal-info
The first line is obvious and it does remove sysvinit from the system. The second line because when I didn't there were about a dozen error messages of the form

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systemd-udevd[419]: failed to execute '/lib/udev/socket:@/org/freedesktop/hal/udev_event' 'socket:@/org/freedesktop/hal/udev_event': No such file or directory
edit /etc/default/grub

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GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT="quiet init=/lib/systemd/systemd"
Then:
sudo update-grub

and

reboot

My timings (same scenario as above) were ..... 29s (repeatable).

So, either I've done something wrong (or not done something I should have) or the time to boot my machine is more a function of the hardware (HDD vs SSD).

Given my results (and assuming I didn't skip something or do something wrong), I have to wonder what all the excitement of systemd is all about.

Anyone have any suggestions?
Scott
Quoting zerozero, "The usage of PPA's in debian-based
systems is risky at best and entails serious compatibility
problems; usually it's the best way to destroy an install"

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Re: No seeing performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 24 Nov 2013 09:28

Interesting.
I haven't been able to test it myself, but I hope that I'll have more time after the holidays.


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zerozero
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Re: No seeing performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby zerozero » 24 Nov 2013 11:56

some ideas (and i can't test any of this because i don't use systemd on debian)
- check what is slowing you
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Im ... erformance
http://www.freedesktop.org/software/sys ... chart.html
systemd-analyze
systemd-bootchart
- some possible optimizations (see what it's possible /feasible in that list)
http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/sy ... mizations/
(from the systemd maintainer)

as Lennart says
Note that systemd's fast performance is a side effect of its design but wasn't the primary design goal.
and also
As it stands now systemd (and Fedora using it) has been optimized very little and still has a lot of room for improvements. There are still many low hanging fruits to pick!
more relevant in debian i would say :mrgreen:
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Re: No seeing performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby ScottQuier » 24 Nov 2013 22:18

I'll be investigating the provided link tomorrow. Today's been a real busy day and I'm beat - not a good time to attempt to get productive the two gray cells I have still functioning.

Thanks for the info - more later.
Scott
Quoting zerozero, "The usage of PPA's in debian-based
systems is risky at best and entails serious compatibility
problems; usually it's the best way to destroy an install"

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Re: No seeing performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby zerozero » 25 Nov 2013 10:02

some numbers
hardware

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System:    Host: kaos Kernel: 3.12.0-1-next x86_64 (64 bit, gcc: 4.8.2)           
           Desktop: KDE 4.11.90 (Qt 4.8.5)                 
Machine:   System: LENOVO product: Lenovo G585 version: Lenovo G585               
           Mobo: LENOVO model: Lenovo G585 version: 31900003WIN8 STD MLT          
           Bios: LENOVO version: 6CCN88WW(V8.01) date: 08/22/2012                 
CPU:       Dual core AMD E2-1800 APU with Radeon HD Graphics (-MCP-) cache: 1024 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4a ssse3 svm) bmips: 6790.84                     
           Clock Speeds: 1: 1360.00 MHz 2: 850.00 MHz                             
Graphics:  Card: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Wrestler [Radeon HD 7340] bus-ID: 00:01.0                                                                         
           X.org: 1.14.4 drivers: ati,radeon (unloaded: vesa) Resolution: 82x43   
Audio:     Card-1: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] FCH Azalia Controller driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:14.2 
           Card-2: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Wrestler HDMI Audio driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:01.1 
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture ver: k3.12.0-1-next
Network:   Card-1: Qualcomm Atheros AR9285 Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) driver: ath9k bus-ID: 06:00.0
           IF: wlp6s0 state: up mac: <filter>
           Card-2: Realtek RTL8101E/RTL8102E PCI Express Fast Ethernet controller 
           driver: r8169 ver: 2.3LK-NAPI port: 2000 bus-ID: 02:00.0
           IF: enp2s0 state: down mac: <filter>
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 320.1GB (1.9% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: WDC_WD3200BPVT size: 320.1GB 
Partition: ID: / size: 97G used: 5.9G (7%) fs: ext4 ID: swap-1 size: 6.90GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap 
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 43.5C mobo: N/A gpu: 43.0 
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A 
Info:      Processes: 117 Uptime: 10 min Memory: 561.5/3528.3MB Gcc sys: 4.8.2 Client: Shell (bash 4.2.45) inxi: 1.9.16

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[zerozero@kaos ~]$ systemd-analyze blame
          4.648s NetworkManager.service
          2.493s udisks.service
          2.491s upower.service
          2.473s systemd-logind.service
          2.464s avahi-daemon.service
          1.286s alsa-restore.service
          1.242s systemd-vconsole-setup.service
          1.199s polkit.service
          1.190s kmod-static-nodes.service
          1.158s systemd-sysctl.service
          1.157s dev-mqueue.mount
          1.156s sys-kernel-debug.mount
          1.155s dev-hugepages.mount
          1.008s systemd-udev-trigger.service
           927ms systemd-modules-load.service
           495ms systemd-backlight@acpi_video0.service
           310ms user@1000.service
           295ms ntpd.service
           289ms systemd-user-sessions.service
           283ms wpa_supplicant.service
           178ms systemd-remount-fs.service
           172ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service
           123ms systemd-journal-flush.service
            93ms systemd-update-utmp.service
            74ms sys-kernel-config.mount
            67ms systemd-udevd.service
            66ms dev-disk-by\x2duuid-a6c38e9e\x2d098d\x2d40cc\x2da387\x2dcc53d1cac22f.swap
            54ms systemd-random-seed.service
            40ms rtkit-daemon.service
             7ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
             4ms tmp.mount

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[zerozero@kaos ~]$ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 584542y 2w 2d 20h 1min 44.046s (loader) + 4.653s (kernel) + 11.082s (userspace) = 15.735s  
still slow but a) without any tweaks and b) this is not exactly a ferrari :lol:
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Re: No seeing performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby Frobozky » 26 Nov 2013 16:25

Scott,

How do you prevent sysvinit from reinstalling everytime you update?
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Re: No seeing performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby fleabus » 26 Nov 2013 17:00

zerozero wrote:

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...Startup finished in 584542y 2w 2d 20h 1min 44.046s [/quote]A lot can happen in half a million years... I hope you at least went and got a cuppa coffee! :lol:  :mrgreen:

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Re: No seeing performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby zerozero » 26 Nov 2013 17:47

fleabus wrote:
zerozero wrote:

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...Startup finished in 584542y 2w 2d 20h 1min 44.046s [/quote]A lot can happen in half a million years... I hope you at least went and got a cuppa coffee! :lol:  :mrgreen:[/quote]
 :lol: but you see the precision? it counts to the milliseconds  :lol:  :lol:
i couldn't find any documentation about that but i believe that it's a glitch because that partition doesn't control grub 
(at least it's the way i read it)
[quote][u]Startup finished in 584542y 2w 2d 20h 1min 44.046s [color=#FF0000](loader)[/color][/u] + 4.653s (kernel) + 11.082s (userspace) = 15.735s  [/quote]
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Re: No seeing performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby fleabus » 26 Nov 2013 19:12

zz wrote:but you see the precision? it counts to the milliseconds :lol: :lol:
And those Lenovos sure are dependable! :lol: I knew I should've bought one of those...

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Re: No seeing performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby ScottQuier » 27 Nov 2013 00:06

Frobozky wrote:Scott,

How do you prevent sysvinit from reinstalling everytime you update?
Don't know yet. I did the intial install, did the dist-upgrade, then the systemd install. I do agree, it will be interesting to see what happens with the next UP.
Scott
Quoting zerozero, "The usage of PPA's in debian-based
systems is risky at best and entails serious compatibility
problems; usually it's the best way to destroy an install"

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Re: No seeing performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby Frobozky » 27 Nov 2013 04:20

Scott, since sysvinit is an essential file, I think you will have to put systemd-sysv on hold. Perhaps like this:

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# aptitude hold systemd-sysv
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Re: No seeing performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby ScottQuier » 27 Nov 2013 12:51

Frobozky wrote:Scott, since sysvinit is an essential file, I think you will have to put systemd-sysv on hold. Perhaps like this:

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# aptitude hold systemd-sysv
Exposing another aspect of my ignorance here ..... if/since sysvinit is an "essential" file, does that mean that the next time I do

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#apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
that, even though they are no longer on the the system, an attempt will be made to (re)install the sysvinit packages (which would cause the systemd packages to be removed)? :?:

That doesn't seem, to me, to be "playing fair". But what do I know? :D
Scott
Quoting zerozero, "The usage of PPA's in debian-based
systems is risky at best and entails serious compatibility
problems; usually it's the best way to destroy an install"

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Re: No seeing performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby Frobozky » 27 Nov 2013 14:13

I followed your initial post. I left out the change to grub since we are installing systemd-sysv. I then put systemd-sysv on hold with aptitude. When I did

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apt update && apt dist-upgrade
systemd-sysv is removed and sysvinit is reinstalled. So either my understanding is wrong, or perhaps it's my method of holding systemd-sysv.

For general information, I did find boot time was faster. This makes sense because several processes are starting at the same time instead of one after another. I am experimenting on my laptop, so the change wasn't too dramatic, since Samba server takes quite a long time to start.
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Re: No seeing performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby zerozero » 27 Nov 2013 14:37

see
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=146207
you probably (if the behaviour wasn't changed since) have to hold the package with dpkg and aptitude (due to a bogus aptitude)

this entry (asked in 2011) seems to suggest that it's still like that
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions ... -in-debian
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Re: No seeing performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby ScottQuier » 27 Nov 2013 15:05

@zerozero - Thanks for the effort/information.

I used a test install for the systemd testing (hmmmm .... there's a pattern there :) ). Since I didn't see any real performance increase in the boot time and only a minimal increase in performance at shutdown, I've not applied the process to my production installs (one desktop and one laptop).

Taking all that into account, please feel free to choose to direct your efforts to more pressing matters.

I will probably play with it at the next UP on the test install as a learning experience. I will continue to update this thread as I learn more, but I think I'll mark it solved.
Scott
Quoting zerozero, "The usage of PPA's in debian-based
systems is risky at best and entails serious compatibility
problems; usually it's the best way to destroy an install"

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Re: [SOLVED] No performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby Frobozky » 27 Nov 2013 15:21

ZeroZero,

Holding wih both aptitude and dpkg worked. Good catch! Thanks.

Thanks to Scott as well for an interesting experiment.
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Re: [SOLVED] No performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby ScottQuier » 27 Nov 2013 22:55

Frobozky wrote:ZeroZero,

Holding wih both aptitude and dpkg worked. Good catch! Thanks.

Thanks to Scott as well for an interesting experiment.
You're quite welcome. It was/is a learning experience for me and I post as a way to (1) share with others and (2) to have a resource to which I can return when I want to do something I can't quite remember how I did it last time (which happens much more often than I would like to admit :D).

And, now, the reason for this post: I also confirm that attempting to do a dist-upgrade without first

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# aptitude hold systemd-sysv
# echo "systemd-sysv hold" | dpkg --set-selections
will cause the systemd-sysv to be removed and sysvinit to be re-installed.

zerozero added a lot of information, above, that I will in time get around to investigating. That should be a lot of fun.
Scott
Quoting zerozero, "The usage of PPA's in debian-based
systems is risky at best and entails serious compatibility
problems; usually it's the best way to destroy an install"

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Re: [SOLVED] No performance improvement sysvinit vs systemd

Postby zerozero » 27 Nov 2013 23:14

ScottQuier wrote:(2) to have a resource to which I can return when I want to do something I can't quite remember how I did it last time (which happens much more often than I would like to admit :D).
more often than not this is also the (selfish) reason n 1 for me :mrgreen:
bliss of ignorance


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