solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog [Solved]

Questions about SolydX and SolydK installation.
cecil
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solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog [Solved]

Postby cecil » 01 Mar 2013 06:20

I've been evaluating distro/version of linux in virtualbox for use on an old (1GB mem/1.8Ghz single core) machine.
The Mint os's used less memory than other distros with the same desktop env. and the 64 os uses 1.5x mem as the 32os
of same distro/de. I expected Solydxk to be the same as Mint, it actually did a little better -- except for Solydk64.
Solydk64 was using more than 2x solydk32/mintkde32 -- using just under .5GB. Looking to see what programs
were using up the memory, I found that two copies of all the desktop files are running with the same user name.
The same user has been started twice, this is likely just duplicate lines in a startup script, and will not effect installed os.
But it does make solydk64 'appear' to be a memory hog.

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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby cwwgateway » 01 Mar 2013 12:15

That's interesting, I'll have to check this out later.

TBH, I'd recommend running SolydX on a machine with 1 GB of memory because KDE in general is more resource heavy, but I'd think KDE should run ok for most common things.
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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 01 Mar 2013 13:36

I checked all four distributions after a fresh install:

SolydX
64-bit mem: 608MB
64-bit disk: 3.2G
32-bit mem: 370MB
32-bit disk: 3.1G

SolydK
64-bit mem: 650MB
64-bit disk: 5.0G
32-bit mem: 510MB
32-bit disk: 5.0G

You see that the 64-bit versions use a lot more memory. I bet this has all to do with the fact that these distributions are multiarch by default whereas LMDE wasn't (though the next version will be, I suppose). I don't know for sure, I'll have to investigate that possibility. If you find the cause, please let me know.


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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby GeneC » 01 Mar 2013 14:31

Schoelje wrote:I checked all four distributions after a fresh install:

SolydX
64-bit mem: 608MB
64-bit disk: 3.2G
[...]
You see that the 64-bit versions use a lot more memory. I bet this has all to do with the fact that these distributions are multiarch by default whereas LMDE wasn't (though the next version will be, I suppose). I don't know for sure, I'll have to investigate that possibility. If you find the cause, please let me know.
MY:
unofficial LMDE-XFCE converted to SolydX 64bit
mem:425MB
disk: 4.9G

As you can see my memory is much lower and I have added a TON of extras.
  • Compiz
    Emerald
    AWN dock
    Tomboy
    Rainlendar (desktop calendar)
    Extra panel applets,
    et. et.
I have almost 100MB's of EXTRAS that I have added to my basic vanilla install.
[rimg]http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3407/memorymq.png[/rimg]

Without those I would be at about =
mem: 325MB Big difference from your 608MB


I'll check my new SolydX-64bit install in a couple minutes.

============================

EDIT:

What are you using to guage memory usage?
Using Gnome System Monitor on

New Fresh Install of SolydX 64 bit
mem: 320MB


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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 01 Mar 2013 17:48

Code: Select all

free -m


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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby GeneC » 01 Mar 2013 18:22

SolydX-64 'vanilla'

Code: Select all

gene@solydx64:~$ free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:         12045        867      11177          0         32        490
-/+ buffers/cache:        345      11700
Swap:         1999          0       1999

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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 01 Mar 2013 19:06

You see that there is a discrepancy between the indicated memory usage of "System Monitor" and "free".
On SolydX the difference in memory usage between "Hardinfo" and "free" are neglectable.
The same so for "KInfoCenter" and "free".

I've analyzed the memory usage of all four distributions again, and I'm afraid we can assume that "System Monitor" is giving a very inaccurate memory usage.
SolydXK - mem -disk usage.txt
(5.31 KiB) Downloaded 89 times
Unfortunately, I could not reproduce cecil's original problem:
I found that two copies of all the desktop files are running with the same user name
All seems normal here.


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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby cwwgateway » 02 Mar 2013 03:55

Here's free -m on SolydX 64-bit on boot:

Code: Select all

christopher@chris-laptop:~$ free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:          7936        480       7455          0         37        225
-/+ buffers/cache:        217       7719
Swap:         4095          0       4095
I've removed some non-essential stuff (for me) like bluetooth, wicd, etc. I had a little problem because I copied a /etc/network/interfaces from another install and it used wlan1 instead of wlan0, but once I fixed that it all worked well.
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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby cwwgateway » 02 Mar 2013 19:51

I just installed SolydX on an older machine and removed some things from boot. Here's the output of free -m:

Code: Select all

christopher@chris-desktop:~$ free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:           486        265        220          0         21        162
-/+ buffers/cache:         81        405
Swap:         1406          0       1406
Edit: Schoelje, are you going by the amount used including buffers and cached? Most applications and measurements seem to go by memory not counting buffers and cached.
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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 02 Mar 2013 20:14

cwwgateway wrote:I just installed SolydX on an older machine and removed some things from boot. Here's the output of free -m:

Code: Select all

christopher@chris-desktop:~$ free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:           486        265        220          0         21        162
-/+ buffers/cache:         81        405
Swap:         1406          0       1406
Edit: Schoelje, are you going by the amount used including buffers and cached? Most applications and measurements seem to go by memory not counting buffers and cached.
Just a fresh install (so no services were stopped or uninstalled) and take what's on the line Mem / used, which in your case is 265 MB.


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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby cwwgateway » 02 Mar 2013 20:25

Schoelje wrote:
cwwgateway wrote:I just installed SolydX on an older machine and removed some things from boot. Here's the output of free -m:

Code: Select all

christopher@chris-desktop:~$ free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:           486        265        220          0         21        162
-/+ buffers/cache:         81        405
Swap:         1406          0       1406
Edit: Schoelje, are you going by the amount used including buffers and cached? Most applications and measurements seem to go by memory not counting buffers and cached.
Just a fresh install (so no services were stopped or uninstalled) and take what's on the line Mem / used, which in your case is 265 MB.
Most system monitor applications - htop, gnome-system-monitor, lxtask, etc - will give the memory as 81 MB in that scenario. I don't know which is better, but I believe the 81 MB number is more widely used.
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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 02 Mar 2013 20:54

Really, is the cache your actually used memory?
81 MB sounds...well...a bit too good to be true, doesn't it?

If so, this is what the memory usage is of our distributions:
SolydX 32: 160 MB
SolydX 64: 250 MB
SolydK 32: 210 MB
SoldyK 64: 310 MB

All numbers were round up.


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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby cwwgateway » 02 Mar 2013 21:16

Schoelje wrote:Really, is the cache your actually used memory?
81 MB sounds...well...a bit too good to be true, doesn't it?

If so, this is what the memory usage is of our distributions:
SolydX 32: 160 MB
SolydX 64: 250 MB
SolydK 32: 210 MB
SoldyK 64: 310 MB

All numbers were round up.
It may be too good to be true... At the same time, I've seen modern-ish distros run in 36 MB of memory on computers running on 128 MB total. I guess I keep thinking back to basically every RAM comparison I've seen; they all go by what the system monitors say and they don't count the cache. If you go into the belly of the beast :lol: and visit the Arch forums, they all think they're running in under 70 MB of RAM with their lightweight WMs.

I just checked and it seems that as I reach my maximum RAM including the cache with the default settings, it starts moving to swap. However, if I add vm.swappiness=10 to the /etc/sysctl.conf file, the cache decreases when I reach the maximum amount of RAM. As I open programs (I've opened exaile, vlc, and thunderbird since I reached the max), the cache decreases - it's gone from 293 to 191.

If you have it set so that your cache decreases as it is needed, then you could say the RAM without the cache is the actual amount of RAM used. However, if you are using the default settings where it uses swap more liberally (which most distros do), then you should count the cache in your memory.
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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 02 Mar 2013 21:38

Feeeeew...you lost me there!
You're 81MB is the cache, isn't it?
So what's the RAM on your free -m output?
Do I need to implement your swapiness trick to get the cache cleaned when its needed, or is it better/safer to leave it as-is?
Do I like beer or wine?
Cheese or sausage?
...so many questions...


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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby cwwgateway » 02 Mar 2013 22:00

TBH, now I've confused myself...
Ok, so here's the current free -m output with firefox open:

Code: Select all

christopher@chris-desktop:~$ free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:           486        412         73          0          9        256
-/+ buffers/cache:        146        339
Swap:         1406          0       1406
I believe the 256 is cached and 146 is actually being used... unless I'm reading this all wrong :? . Regardless, when I open abiword I get to here:

Code: Select all

christopher@chris-desktop:~$ free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:           486        455         30          0         11        289
-/+ buffers/cache:        154        331
Swap:         1406          0       1406
Then I opened GIMP and got to here:

Code: Select all

christopher@chris-desktop:~$ free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:           486        471         15          0          5        277
-/+ buffers/cache:        188        297
Swap:         1406          0       1406
I then opened Shotwell and got this:

Code: Select all

christopher@chris-desktop:~$ free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:           486        466         19          0          5        257
-/+ buffers/cache:        202        283
Swap:         1406          0       1406
And then gnumeric and got this:

Code: Select all

christopher@chris-desktop:~$ free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:           486        461         24          0          4        243
-/+ buffers/cache:        212        273
Swap:         1406          5       1401
And then I opened exaile and got this:

Code: Select all

christopher@chris-desktop:~$ free -m
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:           486        470         15          0          6        227
-/+ buffers/cache:        236        249
Swap:         1406         13       1393
You can see that the cache increases until the RAM is maxed out, and then it decreases. In this test SWAP did turn on eventually, whereas in my first test swap did not turn on. However, before doing the swappiness thing, once the memory including the cache maxed out, it went to SWAP and the amount of SWAP used was up around 70 MB.

As for implementing the swappiness trick, I think the default swappiness (60) is intended more for servers than desktops. It *should* be fine (I've never had a problem with it), and the Ubuntu community SWAP page even recommends a swappiness of 10 for desktops. However, most distros stay with the default, so there may be a reason why...
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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 03 Mar 2013 08:46

That was very....elaborate!
Concluded (for simple souls as I):
To get the used memory: free -m and look at the number on the "buffers/cache" row and the "used" column.
Or short:

Code: Select all

free -m | grep cache: | cut -d' ' -f9
And don't touch the swapiness thingy. It's good as it is now.
Correct?


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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby cwwgateway » 03 Mar 2013 16:10

Schoelje wrote:That was very....elaborate!
Concluded (for simple souls as I):
To get the used memory: free -m and look at the number on the "buffers/cache" row and the "used" column.
Or short:

Code: Select all

free -m | grep cache: | cut -d' ' -f9
And don't touch the swapiness thingy. It's good as it is now.
Correct?
Basically yes and yes.

TBH, I was considering doing an even more elaborate test :lol: but there are too many variables. The big one is there is a significant difference between memory usage right after boot and after the machine has been on for a few minutes.
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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby wizard97_4 » 09 Mar 2013 13:23


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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby zerozero » 09 Mar 2013 14:21

tks for the link :P
i was looking for this
bliss of ignorance

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Re: solydk64 'appears' to be a memory hog

Postby wizard97_4 » 09 Mar 2013 18:24

Schoelje wrote: Concluded (for simple souls as I):
To get the used memory: free -m and look at the number on the "buffers/cache" row and the "used" column.
Or short:

Code: Select all

free -m | grep cache: | cut -d' ' -f9
perhaps also:

Code: Select all

free -m | grep buffers/cache | awk '{print $3}'


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