Nice review

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Snap
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Nice review

Postby Snap » 17 Sep 2013 09:22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za4V_Sy6-T0

I particularly follow this guy's channel distro reviews. Regarding Linux, distros and applications we seem to have quite similar tastes and opinions (though his knowledge is vastly superior compared to mine). :mrgreen:
This likely means that your installation is broken. -Mr Pixbuf.

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Crewp
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Re: Nice review

Postby Crewp » 17 Sep 2013 11:31

Nice review, he seems he is on top of things.

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Re: Nice review

Postby zerozero » 18 Sep 2013 00:40

an interesting review
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Re: Nice review

Postby Orbmiser » 18 Sep 2013 01:10

Yep his only negative points are valid.
As the installer could be made more friendly tho no issue for me.
As never trusted the do it for you and always needed to see the partitions and what is happening with them.

And more polish on software updater.

But being so new and already being neck-to-neck with Mint KDE is awesome.
And confirms my belief that SolydXK is a Winner! :P
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Re: Nice review

Postby timber » 18 Sep 2013 04:45

I found the review pleasant, helpful and with valid, but fairly minor, criticisms.
All in all a review that the SolydXK team can and should be proud of.

I was glad the reviewer did make the point that even new users "should" know or at least learn about partitioning drives early on.
As for the messages asking to "Keep" or "Replace" configuration files during an upgrade ... necessary for sure but perhaps there is a way to help new users know how to address these. (e.g. Button with drop-down containing a brief suggestion to "Keep current config", when asked, unless this is a brand new install where no configuration changes have been made).

Thanks for posting the link!
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Snap
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Re: Nice review

Postby Snap » 18 Sep 2013 08:46

As the installer could be made more friendly tho no issue for me.
As never trusted the do it for you and always needed to see the partitions and what is happening with them.

I was glad the reviewer did make the point that even new users "should" know or at least learn about partitioning drives early on.
I was a bit surprised when he mentioned this about the installer, because i didn't remembered it at all. :mrgreen: But like you, I always do it manually. I was familiar with partitioning before jumping into Linux, but perhaps for a totally noob it might be helpful to have an automatic option. I'm not sure about that. All the distros I've tried having an automatic option did a crap less than ideal partition schematic, usually picking the whole disc with no separate home partition and often without even a SWAP. I don't care too much about having a SWAP partition in a given machine myself, because I tend to install as much RAM as I can, and the way I configure the OS it's never needed. But I know that's not for everyone or every machine. An auto general purpose partitioning option should make an adequate SWAP.

Once said that, I still don't think that an auto partitioning is a good choice even for totally noob. I mean... If you don't know how to partition an HD (and don't care about it at all) what the heck are you doing installing any OS? IMO, installing an OS is not a job for the layman. Better get informed first, call a friend who knows what he's doing to do the job for you, or teaching you how to do it and why. Just my 2 cents.
But being so new and already being neck-to-neck with Mint KDE is awesome.
And confirms my belief that SolydXK is a Winner!
Absoluely. And this is why we are here. :mrgreen:
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Re: Nice review

Postby Orbmiser » 18 Sep 2013 15:39

Installers can be as user friendly as needed. Do way with cryptic sda this and sdb that and go to more human graphic layout like actual hardrive or pie chart with human names for partition. "This is your Windows C: partition"

This Blue slice has win7 installed on it. This white partition is free and available.
Your hardrive is full and you will need to resize the Win7 partition to make room do you wish to do that?
Then do it for them. Make a default of 20 gb-30gb adjustable defaults.

Or automatically show the need to shrink win7 down and show intended install next to window partition.
Again visual & colors coded helps visualization.

And absolutely No automatic install over other installed OS'es without sufficient warnings specifically stating this will remove and overwrite and remove your Windows partition.Also specific warnings at the beginning warning of possible loss of personal files and to back them up.

This is more about resistance of dev's making it to easy for the less clueless to install. As never understood the sparse human info given. As looking at partition tables even I after 30 years of computer experience building,setting up,Installing OS'es have to look 2-3 times carefully at the cryptic at first glance of the partition tables to make sure I'm doing it as intended. I don't see why that has to be the case. The answer is a more intelligent installer that talks more human than computer.

It all comes down to "Does the Linux Community Really Want the Everyday User on Linux?" That is a separate issue but one that has too be addressed. As by all the Home Distor pages are advertising the ease and simple to use for the everyday user. So therefore obligated to make their distro just that. For the general user that is inclined to invest more in clicking and less on thinking. Which are the majority of user's which is sad but true.
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Re: Nice review

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 18 Sep 2013 17:16

I wholeheartedly disagree with this quote:
This is more about resistance of dev's making it to easy for the less clueless to install. As never understood the sparse human info given.
Being a "dev" (among others) for more than 15 years, I can tell you that this assumption is not based on current reality. It might have been back in the '80, but not now. Developers understand what is needed to be done (they do talk, and listen to their clients, and are more consultants than developers nowadays). Unfortunately, reality dictates that these complex solutions cost an enormous amount of time. Open-source projects are chronically short on two resources: time and money. The time problem can be won by attracting more developers, but developers are also loyal, and a new project needs to fight a long battle to solve that one. The money problem is an obvious one, but not easy to solve due to the nature of an open source project like SolydXK. Both time and money are then shared over many priorities, which means none of the solutions are ideal. Not because developers don't want to, but because it's a result of prioritizing.


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Re: Nice review

Postby Orbmiser » 18 Sep 2013 20:54

Ahhh I see sounds like tho that specific distro's don't need to make their own custom installer?
More in the way like Ubuntu installer that everyone uses in other Ubuntu based distro's ?
Or a universal Debian installer where it is developed by the main distros and all other flavors use.

Like to point out they have made great strides for automatically installing. But blindly with no visual clues exactly what it's going to happen to their hardrive. Newbies will have certain assumptions that it will not overwrite their present installed OS and assume it will ask them first if that is the case. But that isn't the case. Many have lost due to their unfounded assumptions. But there is no reason the major installers can't provide more visual feedback and ask questions to clarify what is about to happen to their hardrive. And in easy more understandable human understandable dialogs aimed at the more general user during the install.

Just pointing out a general weakness of Linux. And hoping to see it develop even more friendly and harder for the uninitiated to mess up their partitions.

Otherwise I have great admiration for the volunteers and dedicated developers that strive constantly to improve and make Linux The Superior OS that it IS! :o
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Re: Nice review

Postby Snap » 19 Sep 2013 10:00

Do you mean something like Wubi? By default it leaves windows alone, repartitions the HD and installs sets up Ubuntu and Grub for a dual boot system. This way it prevents to erase the Win stuff. Of course repartitioning without a previous backup is always a risky thing, but at least that installer tries to not mess the user files up.

It worked fine when I used it some time ago. The idea of Wubi is allowing Win users to install and try Ubuntu side by side with an already installed Windows system in the same HD without hassles in their computers. As the original intention of SolydXK is reaching, convincing and grabbing former Win particular and business users (plus Linux distro switchers). I think it's a good idea considering a kind of Win-Solyd-Installer similar to Wubi.
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Re: Nice review

Postby Orbmiser » 19 Sep 2013 15:01

Nope wasn't talking wubi. Was talking about newbies choosing. Or even read stories about installing next to win7 and then promptly wiping there D: as that was setup by others for them as their data partition in windows. Being clueless about partitions assumed it was safe. Then there is the confusion of Primary vs. Logical partitions.

Just may be dreaming on my part and really not such an issue.
But so many confused and complaints mistakes on the installing part that am reading out there.
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Re: Nice review

Postby fleabus » 22 Sep 2013 08:43

Schoelje wrote:Developers understand what is needed to be done (they do talk, and listen to their clients, ...)
More so these days, IMHO in the Linux community. This is why I'm here, a brand-new aspiring member. :) There are other reasons, but this was my strongest motivation.
Orbmiser wrote:It all comes down to "Does the Linux Community Really Want the Everyday User on Linux?" That is a separate issue but one that has too be addressed.
Separate issue? I think not. I think it's the whole point.
Schoelje wrote: a. The Windows user who'd like to try something else, but doesn't know where to begin.
b. The (small) business owner, who wants to concentrate on his core-business instead of
maintaining the little of IT he has.
The Everyday User. There they are. I'm afraid I have to agree with Orbmiser here. Schoelje, you're talking marketing now. Yes, this issue is a small one. But it, and others like it, is why Linux loses the Everyday User right at the starting gate. If the Linux community wants The Everyday User, it's gonna have to bite the bullet and fix these small things. If you say, "I'm sorry, but you're gonna have to learn something about disk partitioning before you can come here.." Right there you've lost 99% of them. From their point of view, why should they do that if they can go grab something easy (read "familiar"), and just plonk it down on the table, turn it on, and use it?

Sadly, in my experience any time you say even the smallest hint of RTFM to an Everyday User, he/she is outta here. Maybe I'm too jaded. Maybe I'm out of touch, and that's no longer true. It sure would be nice. I think Orbmiser has a good grip on what needs to be done, not just here but in a lot of areas, if the community really wants to bring in everyday users.
Schoelje wrote:Unfortunately, reality dictates that these complex solutions cost an enormous amount of time....
... Both time and money are then shared over many priorities, which means none of the solutions are ideal.
Ya got me there. I know there just aren't any easy answers. IMO you've certainly started out pointed in exactly the right direction. Rolling/Semi-rolling, stable, but with up-to-date software includes and good hardware support. I know I'm not the only one out there for whom this is perfect.

-- Dave

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Re: Nice review

Postby Sewedob » 22 Sep 2013 09:17

In my opinion The Everyday User will not trade his "convenience" with MS Windows for a better OS. Most people I talk to (ordinary, non-tech people) don't even know of the existence of linux, and they are not really interested. All they want is an OS that doesn't bother them, where they can play their games and chat with eactarthother. They can with linux, but why changing when they are confident with MS Windows. There was a chance when Windows 8 came out without the Start button (it took me a lot of time to " understand" Win. 8 on a laptop), but now they corrected themselves with Win. 8.1

This leafs only the people who are interested in the software side of their "computering". Still a lot of people I guise, but not The Everyday User. First of all they are looking further than MS Windows and they know how to look things up on the internet. The first thing I did when I came to the partitioning part of the installation was to look for a manual, which I found really quick. It wasn't hard to do, I just followed the manual (and I am far from a "geek")

IMHO when you make a Linux distro you have to follow a clear line, otherwise you confuse people and they won't stay with your distro for long. I think SolydXK is on the right course, when it stays stable and when we all contribute to the publicity of SolydXK, it will have a great future.

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Re: Nice review

Postby fleabus » 22 Sep 2013 09:35

Sewedob wrote:... when we all contribute to the publicity of SolydXK, it will have a great future.
:twisted: I'm afraid I can be quite a pain in the butt to my family and friends when I get excited about something. I often get them into this or that device or software because they give up and just want me to shut up... "Run! Here comes Dad with an new toy!" But then before you know it they're out there pestering their friends too. :mrgreen:

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Re: Nice review

Postby odo5435 » 22 Sep 2013 10:24

Sewedob wrote:In my opinion The Everyday User will not trade his "convenience" with MS Windows for a better OS.
This has been said before but it remains true. The people I speak to are happy that what they bought at the store works fine. They use software that their work or friends use or that they have read about and are not inclined towards changing any of it. And why should they want to change it?

Surely we all know someone who refuses to eat anything other than what they've eaten all their lives, even if it's not very good for them. "I don't want that 'foreign' muck" also applies to software. That's why, as much as it is disliked, there is a large trend to MS lookalikes in distros.

The only average persons who look at Linux are those who are dissatisfied with the alternatives. Everyone else just uses what is in the store and until Linux can make inroads into being 'in the store' it will always struggle to gain credibility with The Everyday User.

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Re: Nice review

Postby Sewedob » 22 Sep 2013 12:51

I'm affraid that when linux get's popular in the store, it goes the same way as in politics: you don't recognise them anymore when they are in charge.

For me linux doesn't have to aim at "the guy in the street", it will always lose, because in this capitalistic world others will allways be better in pursuading the customer. Linux has to go commercial then, and fortunately this is not what linux stands for.

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Re: Nice review

Postby Fishman » 05 Oct 2013 12:23

Post was a duplicate. Sorry Iwill try t do better next time.
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Re: Nice review

Postby zerozero » 05 Oct 2013 15:34

Fishman
we appreciate the enthusiasm ;) but Spatry's review was already covered here >> http://forums.solydxk.nl/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1579
bliss of ignorance


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