Administrations migrating to open source - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gates!’”

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Administrations migrating to open source - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gates!’”

Postby Orbmiser » 18 Dec 2013 20:53

City of Munich completes migration to Linux of 15000 desktops
http://alien.slackbook.org/blog/city-of ... -desktops/
Peter Hoffman (LiMux project leader) about the time when Bill Gates himself spoke with the Major. At one point, Gates asked the Major what his reasons were for this Linux migration. The answer ‘We want more freedom” did not satisfy Gates, and he asked “Freedom from what?”. The major replied with “Freedom from you, Mr. Gates!’”
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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 21 Dec 2013 12:09

I knew of this program, and just thinking about the complexity of it is mind-bobbling!
Just replacing a desktop is over-simplifying a project of this magnitude.
Think about the wide variety of systems, and infrastructures of such a diverse environment.
Not to mention the interfaces that need to change to support the existing back-end systems, the changes that are needed in business processes, and the mindset of users that are going to work with the new infrastructure.

Munich is a shining example of how to tackle the vendor lock-in problem, create a community with a common goal, center technical know-how in their city, and make their IT infrastructure future resistant.

I wish our politicians would have just a fraction of courage (and spine) of the people of Munich who realized this transition. Only then things can change.


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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby fleabus » 21 Dec 2013 12:37

Schoelje wrote:I knew of this program, and just thinking about the complexity of it is mind-bobbling!

I wish our politicians would have just a fraction of courage (and spine) of the people of Munich who realized this transition. Only then things can change.
Not to mention ours. I read up on this when they announced that it was mostly completed. Right, Hellofa backbone that took. And now they've proved that it can be done, to the chagrin of bureaucrats, nay-sayers and M$ Luddites everywhere. I'm really proud of those folks.

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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby smackthepony » 22 Dec 2013 10:00

Gates asked the Major what his reasons were for this Linux migration. The answer ‘We want more freedom” did not satisfy Gates, and he asked “Freedom from what?”. The major replied with “Freedom from you, Mr. Gates!’”
This guy really doesn't get it
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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby zerozero » 22 Dec 2013 12:41

that's great!

another ongoing migration is the one of the French police
http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... ng-ubuntu/
At the current stage of the migration, it has adopted Ubuntu on 5,000 workstations. Based on the success of this pilot migration, it plans to move forward and switch a total of 15,000 workstations to Ubuntu by the end of the year. It aims to have the entire organization, and all 90,000 of its workstations, running the Linux distribution by 2015.
"Moving from Microsoft XP to Vista would not have brought us many advantages and Microsoft said it would require training of users," said Lt. Col. Guimard. "Moving from XP to Ubuntu, however, proved very easy. The two biggest differences are the icons and the games. Games are not our priority."
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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby fleabus » 22 Dec 2013 13:12

zerozero wrote:another ongoing migration is the one of the French police
http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... ng-ubuntu/
Didn't know about that one. Little by little, slow but sure... 8-)

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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby Orbmiser » 27 Dec 2013 21:31

More Complete and Final story on the Quest to Linux.
LiMux - the IT evolution - An open source success story like never before
https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/elibrary/ca ... tory-never
For decades the politicians had been accustomed to agreeing to spend millions of Euros (or Deutschmarks) on some obscure new version of a Redmond product whenever their administrators told them that there was no alternative and that they needed to upgrade. The admins, of course, were simply passing on the same story from their Microsoft account managers.

But with Linux, for the first time, the admins were able to let the politicians do what they love best: make decisions, feel important. And the Munich IT staff could offer a new strategy, something like: “If you choose this route now, in the future we will have true freedom of choice and you will be asked to make decisions more often.” From a non-technical point of view that translates to: “You will have more power to decide.”

This shift of power did take some getting used to. Insiders report that council members' reactions ranged from distrust, through disbelief, to firm opposition. The latter was not really a surprise, given that Microsoft's German headquarters is located in the Munich suburb of Unterschleißheim. Rumour has it that Microsoft's plan to move its office to central Munich in 2015 is motivated by the loss of the municipality as a customer.
Patent issues and the 2004 halt

Technical questions and the problems of change management – both issues familiar to any other migration – were not the only difficulties Munich had to cope with. At various times legal and political matters also played an important role, sometimes to the point of endangering the whole project.

As early as summer 2004, an informal check of the patent situation had revealed that the Linux migration might be violating more than 50 European patents. These included Amazon's “one-click” patent and others covering JPEG, CIFS/SMB and XML, many of them held by Microsoft.
“Friendly” visits

In 2003, for instance, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer even broke off his skiing holiday to visit Munich and try to convince Ude that a Microsoft solution would be better. Though Ballmer offered to reduce licence prices – by 35 percent, from US$ 31.9 million to US$ 23.7 million, according to USA Today – he was obviously not convincing. By that time Microsoft had had to acknowledge the dangers of free software. A few months before, Ballmer had called Linux “a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches”; in the same year his sales representatives told their staff under no circumstances to lose against Linux.

But Ballmer wasn't the only one who tried to persuade Ude of a better solution. When the Munich mayor was at a conference in California, giving a speech about LiMux, Bill Gates was there as well. Ude, who is well-known as a humorist, loves to tell what happened next. Gates asked Ude if he would accept a lift to the airport in Gates's limousine. Wanting to save time, Ude agreed and off they went. Once in the car, however, the mayor discovered that the Microsoft CEO wanted to use the 20-minute ride to talk him out of LiMux. Gates asked: “Mr. Ude, why are you doing this?”. Ude replied: “To gain freedom.” Gates: “Freedom from what?” Ude: “Freedom from you, Mr. Gates.” According to Ude the rest of the ride passed in silence.
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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 28 Dec 2013 10:39

Thanks for that link, Orbmiser.
That's an interesting read.


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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby ScottQuier » 28 Dec 2013 16:37

Yes, thanks for the link! That was quite the inspiring story. Gives me hope for the future - just wish my job site (a US Gov't agency) had this opportunity! With the lessons learned available, that would be so cool!
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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 11 Jan 2014 14:32

I was just thinking: what would we need to do to make SolydK BE patent free so that governmental institutions could use it?


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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby ScottQuier » 11 Jan 2014 15:45

Schoelje wrote:I was just thinking: what would we need to do to make SolydK BE patent free so that governmental institutions could use it?
I'm guessing here but I would think SolydXK would have to do something like what Debian does - make sure that all the "standard" packages are FOOS and make all the propriatary packages optional install. But, I know less about patent law than I do about the price of tea in China.
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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby Omega » 20 Jan 2014 08:25

Schoelje wrote:I was just thinking: what would we need to do to make SolydK BE patent free so that governmental institutions could use it?
Even if you tried, there will always be lawyers trying to find the 5th leg of the cat to find a flaw. Samsung and Google have their fair share of law suits and both are corperate power houses.

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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby ane champenois » 09 Feb 2014 09:25

Yes nice news from Munich and France. Thanks to all. :D
The two biggest differences are the icons and the games. Games are not our priority.
I'm happy games aren't their priority. 8-)
They did not know it was impossible so they did it.

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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby Orbmiser » 09 Feb 2014 15:51

I'm happy games aren't their priority. 8-)
But how will they learn coping skills and deal with anger issues if they can't play Angry Birds? :o
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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby kurotsugi » 09 Feb 2014 19:49

I was just thinking: what would we need to do to make SolydK BE patent free so that governmental institutions could use it?
AFAIK with non-free packages as an exception, all packages from debian are free and anyone can use it. IMO our concern regarding patent problem would be:
1. codecs. we're using some codecs and dvd stuff from debs-multimedia.org. some country doesn't allow an OS distributed with codecs. that's why linuxmint-codecs free version exist.
2. solydxk home brewed packages/software. we need a license to cover them. we'll also need to make sure that they didn't infringe any patents.

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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 09 Feb 2014 21:14

The business editions are not using any deb-multimedia. So, that's a start.
I remember vaguely that patents were held on gif, and jpeg, but I am not certain. So, I could use some help in this regard.

All SolydXK custom applications are now licenced under LGPL (https://www.gnu.org/licenses/lgpl.html). What's your idea?


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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby kurotsugi » 09 Feb 2014 22:25

the package related with those stuffs are created by debian so that any patent issue about them should be addressed to debian, not us. I guess that's only a part of microsoft's FUD strategy. I never heard any linux distro got sued by those stuffs.
this article might good to read http://fossforce.com/2014/01/blame-fud- ... n-schools/
“It might even be illegal for us to remove Microsoft Office or Windows from previously purchased computers, due to the vendor agreement the school district signed with Microsoft.”

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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 10 Feb 2014 18:58

That was rather a Kafkanian story :shock: !
It also makes me wonder if MS has the same sort of grip on the rest of the world (anywhere outside the U.S.A.). I don't even know how that works here in the EU :oops:

I also created a more technical topic on making BE/BO more free: http://forums.solydxk.nl/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=2885


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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby patzy » 11 Feb 2014 02:06

Schoelje wrote:That was rather a Kafkanian story :shock: !
It also makes me wonder if MS has the same sort of grip on the rest of the world (anywhere outside the U.S.A.).
Some time ago, here in South Australia, our government signed up to an MS based contract that mentioned 'per computer' in a school. It turned out that, as the contract did not specifically mention Windows computers, the government were paying for MS support for Macs as well. :roll:

There have been a few moves to break the MS grip, but no departments seem to have the 'moral fortitude' to go ahead and try it. Despite the huge savings.

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Re: Munich completes migration - “Freedom from you, Mr. Gate

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 11 Feb 2014 07:44

I bet that it'll not be that much different here in the EU.
MS is king of lock-in, and the people with mandate often lack vision, and backbone.

Even if we could create the perfect OS for organizations, MS has all in place to prevent adoption of something different than MS. The worst thing about these stories I think is that enormous amounts of public money is spend every 3 to 5 years without adding value to the organizations that use it, and the money is spent without a second thought, or consideration because it's not theirs.


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