XFCE

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disciple1964
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XFCE

Postby disciple1964 » 17 Jun 2014 21:37

Hello,

I have a simple or not so simple question. "What do you like about XFCE" I am a long time KDE user and as I get older, I am not so much into the eye candy, as I am more into the form and function now.

I like to be able to have multiple browsing tabs open and various apps, but I don't want most of my 8 gigs of mem taken up. I guess I'm a holdover from the DOS days where you could open massives amounts of applications and not see all your 1gig of mem taken up. My first computer in 86 was a 8088 with 256mb of mem, and for the life of me, I never ran out of memory. Speaking of, I wish they would bring back the BBS's those boards were a heck of a lot of fun!

Thanks

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Orbmiser
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Re: XFCE

Postby Orbmiser » 17 Jun 2014 22:11

I'm an old timer from back even before Dos with CP/M Cobal,Fortran on IBM 360/70. And first computers with a lot of those making everything fit in 640k. But now I don't bother.

HTG Explains: Why It’s Good That Your Computer’s RAM Is Full
http://www.howtogeek.com/128130/htg-exp ... m-is-full/
As Linux is outstanding on dealing with ram. Maximizing performance vs. available ram. And much of that displays ram used is really not used at all and available if needed.

I'm more concerned with responsiveness and apps being snappy which XFCE gives. But for me with KDE it's more about featues and functions and more capable Applications. And never ran into ram issues on my 4gb system. And rarely go over 2gb unless I'm doing Image Editing or Video editing kind of things. Have change my perception to Unused Ram is Wasted Ram. Why would I waste the cash on ram I never use? But that is just me.

And Xfce had less of those many features that I use in KDE. As I could care less about eye candy,whobbly windows,etc.. Tho do like the Cube using my mouse wheel to change to my 4 Virtual desktops in a small turn on the mouse wheel to 2 to 10 apps I may have open at any given time. Couple that with a wide array of panel customizing and desktop tweaking to get right. To the more flexible and feature rich Dolphin file manager. I hate the confusing kitchen sink settings but they are changing that in the new KDE coming down the pike.

I like my desktop more minimalist like the old Gnome 2 days. And so can customize it that way in a few minutes. And have plenty of room for apps due to my addiction to dual 22" displays.

Image

When I tried Xfce then I was pulling in gnome libraries or kde libraries and frameworks to get more feature rich applications that satisfied my needs. With Xfce much of the configuration is done in config files and takes more time and work in my opinion. And wasn't my cup of tea. As I always had to add things or hacks workarounds to get Xfce or other more minimal WM up to what I needed.

Good luck and hope Xfce is your cup of tea. Seems to be for many here.

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disciple1964
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Re: XFCE

Postby disciple1964 » 17 Jun 2014 23:23

Thanks for that reply, after reading the link, I have learned something new. I never looked at empty ram in that manner, With that being said, The 8gig that I have should be more than enough for my usage patterns.

I also like the way you put using KDE, and yes using XFCE would entail learning how to edit config files, not that I am afraid to do that, but when you look at it, I guess the question would be "WHY?" Well this definitely gives me some information to digest.

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Re: XFCE

Postby Orbmiser » 18 Jun 2014 02:29

No problems and don't let my take dissuade you from giving Xfce a go. I would just back up my root and /home partitions with Redo (Clonezilla) to my external usb and go for it if I already didn't know and have tried Xfce before. And would be my first choice for a minimal WM.

But seen many touting how Xfce is less of a resource hog. Then they want to add Compiz,Steam,Skype,Plank launcher and use a more capable Nemo,Nautilus or Dolphin file managers. Or needing LibreOffice or K3b or Amarok,Clementine for music and end up with a hybrid system achieving kind of what I already have in KDE. And more work to maintain those kind of mixes with more possibility of breakage and such.

And really doesn't matter much what WM or DE you choose as the more apps you add and use then all that slim & trim disappears when you start using those apps in a modern system with 2gb of ram or more. Netbooks or real old 1gb systems then I would probably be more onboard with Lxde,RazorQT,Crunchbang or Xfce kind of window managers.

But with my Full Desktop Environment that KDE gives in feature set and function and the more capable and mature applications and is Snappy and Smooth on my Amd Dual-core 4gb with very rare times swap is used. Chimes in to desktop at 295'ish mb which is half or a third of what Windows 7 needs. And that is good enough for me.
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Re: XFCE

Postby kurotsugi » 18 Jun 2014 08:42

as for me, its: light, small, easy to maintain, rock solyd and have everything you need from a fully fledged desktop. it's not as rich as gnome, unity or kde in terms of feature but xfce has both stability and compactness needed for my daily usage.

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Re: XFCE

Postby Longshot » 19 Jun 2014 01:04

Xfce is easier to use, does everything you want without having to jump through hoops, and can be made to look just as good as the rest.

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Re: XFCE

Postby rokytnji » 19 Jun 2014 02:34

Then they want to add Compiz,Steam,Skype,Plank launcher and use a more capable Nemo,Nautilus or Dolphin file managers. Or needing LibreOffice or K3b or Amarok,Clementine for music and end up with a hybrid system achieving kind of what I already have in KDE. And more work to maintain those kind of mixes with more possibility of breakage and such.
Very well said since we don't have a like button. That is why my XFCE is spartan on my Atom Netbook with 2 gig of ram.
The slow ass platter zif hard drive is the main bottleneck on that unit. But I only have the bucks for 1 64gig SSD for one Netbook and Icewm runs on that one. Same Netbook. But it screams fast with the SSD in it.

Hardware wise. XFCE is about as heavy as I probably will ever go (though Mate looks OK to me also though siamesed caja is a PITA). But I have already stated on how KDE dyslexic I am already so just beating a dead horse here. ;)

I know everyone on other forums other than this one that are long time KDE users and Happy Campers using KDE.
I am happy for them also. All have their good points as far as I am concerned.

I just happen to be a Windows manager type of user is all.

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Re: XFCE

Postby Night Wing » 19 Jun 2014 12:54

I tried KDE on Netrunner and while it's very pretty, KDE just doesn't do anything for me. I then tried XFCE on linux Mint 14 back then and I really liked how light it was and how fast it was. At the time, XFCE was using the old classic Menu which I liked and then something changed where the new Whisker menu was now the default. The Whisker menu doesn't appeal to me so when I install an XFCE desktop environment, the very first thing I do is remove the Whisker menu and install the old classic XFCE menu.

XFCE is touted for older computer hardware since it's easier on resources. But, if you have a fast computer with lots of memory, XFCE just flies.

As an example, I have two HP tower computers with two hard drives in each of them so I can dual boot Windows 7 and Mint 16 XFCE in one tower computer and Windows 7 and SolydX in the other tower computer.

Right now, I'm on my 4 year old HP tower computer using Mint 16 XFCE. It's specs:

16 GB of memory
Intel i7 processor @ 2.80 Mhz
Nvidia 220 GeForce Graphics Card

My other HP tower computer is also 4 years old and it has SolydX on it. It's specs:

24 GB of memory
Intel i7 processor @ 2.93 Mhz
Nvidia 440 GeForce Graphics Card

I also have a very fast broadband connection. My download speed is around 57.41 Mbps and the upload speed is 11.56 Mbps. With my two tower computers and my high speed broad band connection, since I like how XFCE performs and looks, XFCE is my preferred choice.

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Re: XFCE

Postby Swamper » 19 Jun 2014 12:59

@Orbmiser: You make valid points. I've run CrunchBang (Openbox) and other Debian-based distros, using Xfce, on both my dual-booted iMac and my System76 laptop. Both have plenty of "juice" with 4 GB to run KDE, but I've always liked how Openbox and Xfce looked.

On the other hand, I'm running Snort, ClamAV, conky, and a couple of other apps on startup, so when I boot, I'm already at around 500 mb. With Firefox and Thunderbird open, I'm at 1.4 GB of RAM. :o And, yes, I'm one of those folks who has installed Clementine, LibreOffice, Skype, Dropbox, to name a few, but I don't use Plank since I have the Xfce panel.

Hmmm...perhaps I should give SolydK a spin in VM.... :lol:

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Re: XFCE

Postby Orbmiser » 19 Jun 2014 16:05

Well comes down to what works for the individual and much has to do with expectations and personal aesthetics.
Just wanted to point out my personal take as always hearing why lightweight is better. And pointing out why lightweight isn't always better. Especially if lacking features or more capable applications that impact productivity. Or requiring a lot of research writing or editing a lot of configs to keep track of. Or finding patches,workarounds to add this or that.

Or why have 8gb or 16gb if you are never using more than 2-4gb. A friend of mine is really clueless about using tho he spouts specs of higher motherboards,video cards and how he needs 8gb minimum and not just any ram but the most pricey specs shows their the best. And all he does is constantly browse the internet doing more research on why he needs a $179 special bladed folding knife for camping or $130 for special magnesium flashlight when a $10 would work just as well for his needs. Not a gamer or video editor or running high end applications like 3d or Cad. But needs 8gb minimum?

Or at a dinner party showing off his new blue ray player and 46" LCD High-Def screen. Had a Blue-ray movie just started touting look at that the details the colors,etc.. about 20 mins into it and had to pause and the 6 of us all left the room to get the food. I snuck back in and swapped out the blue-ray and put in the DVD version fast forward to same spot and paused it. We all ate and watched the rest of the movie and enjoyed it. As the titles were scrolling by I fessed up. And he couldn't believe he didn't notice or no else did either. As we all were absorbed into the movie. Not the resolution or details or 9.1 sound.

So for me snappy and fast loading is nice. But once the apps are open and am doing work it's the furtherest from my mind how fast apps open or how little ram used overall in doing that. And more important to me is having applications that are stable and have the features I need from the start. Unfortunately Thunar,Abiword,Rythmbox,etc.. most of the Xfce applications don't cut it for me. So why then replacing all the basic applications with more functional and mature apps? Having to rely on Gnome or KDE apps then would just go the full route full desktop environment then. Is which how it worked out for me. The first time I did Xfce was way back in 2006? And found myself adding nautilus and other Gnome apps anyways. Time I was done it wasn't any less bloated or faster than Gnome 2.

Sorry for the long rant. And is just my opinion and no more valid than any other's that have opposing views. And the most important thing is finding Xfce your cup of tea and fulfills all your desires,needs and wants. Then happy you found your desktop that works great for you. I'm just so happy that Linux gives Us All the choices to find our little corner of happiness.

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Re: XFCE

Postby ray » 20 Jun 2014 01:36

Night Wing wrote:... The Whisker menu doesn't appeal to me so when I install an XFCE desktop environment, the very first thing I do is remove the Whisker menu and install the old classic XFCE menu.
Would be very interested in knowing how to install the 'old classic XFCE menu'. Currently using the normal menu from the Add to Panel options - is this the same as the classic menu. Would also like to know what the launcher name is for the normal menu - or any menu for that matter.

Ray

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Re: XFCE

Postby disciple1964 » 20 Jun 2014 05:47

[quote="Orbmiser"]Well comes down to what works for the individual and much has to do with expectations and personal aesthetics.


Orbmiser, You make a valid point. One reason I tend to put at least 8gigs of mem in my systems, come from the windows days, specifically windows 7. I found that windows ran without bluescreens or slowdown issues, although you still better defrag the drive daily to keep it smooth running.

However, I do look at specs for motherboards, primary for upgrade reasons, I believe in buying a motherboard that can handle 2 cpu upgrades, and has at least 16gig mem capacity. The bells and whistles play a part but only a small one. I do this for cost more than anything, it's cheaper to max out the mem, because you won't use all of it, and ram is relatively cheap for DDR3 depending on sale.

My early days of tech support, I stayed in the computer stores buying the next big upgrade, Until I learned that was a trap, and that it was unwise to spend all your hard earned money on something that was just going to be replaced in less than 6months. So that is when I started looking ahead and buying upgrades that would be more than I needed at the time, but would allow me the cheapest route to upgrade when needed.

Now, my system is at a point that I don't really have to upgrade and it has been that way for over 3 years now, so I save a lot of money. I can go to Fry's or Microcenter and walk out with nothing or very least a can of air to clean my system. If I had the 20-30K I spent in those stores over the last 17 years, Man I would be sitting pretty good right now.

I guess I say that to let's others know that the need to upgrade all the time or buy the next so-called big thing can and will mostly be a waste of money, concidering you haven't even used 1/4th of the power of your current computer. That also comes down to perception of the person.

So I bet your friend had to sit back and think about all the money he wasted because he believed the hype the advertising industry gives you. It's a game to get money out of your wallet into theirs, and once you realize, that a material piece of equipment cannot feed you if you lose your job, then you tend to respect what you earn and make wiser decisions. Anyway back on topic. I have decided after really playing with XFCE in a vm, that I already have what I need in KDE and I can play with XFCE in the vm and still gain experience with it. My next upgrade will be a SABERTOOTH 990FX R2.0 because I really like the board and it seems to be well built, and will last a long time before another upgrade, I can see at least 2 or more cpu upgrades before I even have to think about buying anything else.

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Re: XFCE

Postby Night Wing » 20 Jun 2014 11:45

ray wrote:
Night Wing wrote:... The Whisker menu doesn't appeal to me so when I install an XFCE desktop environment, the very first thing I do is remove the Whisker menu and install the old classic XFCE menu.
Would be very interested in knowing how to install the 'old classic XFCE menu'. Currently using the normal menu from the Add to Panel options - is this the same as the classic menu. Would also like to know what the launcher name is for the normal menu - or any menu for that matter.

Ray
The old classic XFCE menu is called the "Applications Menu".

Right click on an empty spot on your Panel taskbar. When the box pops up, scroll to "Panel" and when you put your cursor on Panel, another box opens up. Left click on "Add New Items". When the Add New Items box pops up, look for and left click on "Applications Menu" to highlight it. Then left click on "Add". It will be added way over to the far right of the panel taskbar to the right of your clock. Right click on the "Applications Menu (XFCE) so you can shorten the description of it by back spacing the name to "Menu". This will put the little mouse and "Menu" on your Panel taskbar. Then you can move the old classic XFCE menu any where you want it by right clicking on the XFCE classic menu and then left clicking on "Move". Then left click and hold down on the mouse button on the XFCE menu and drag it to where you want and then left go and the XFCE menu should be where you want it.

Once the XFCE menu is on the panel, right click on the default Whisker Menu and when the box pops open, left click on "Remove" so you'll only have the old classic XFCE menu showing.

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Re: XFCE

Postby jsalpha2 » 20 Jun 2014 13:00

I am one of Xfce's biggest fans and won't use the Whisker Menu either. The old Applications menu can be customized by moving it, renaming it and changing the icon. That is the main reason I like Xfce. I can move, remove, change, or add anything I want. Other DEs can be changed too, but for me it is much harder (for me anyway) and there are some items that I have never been able to move. I think that is why people hate the Unity DE. I've found it almost impossible to make changes to it. For me Xfce feels comfortable, like a favorite pair of blue jeans. Other distros are more like a suit and tie. :D

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Re: XFCE

Postby ray » 20 Jun 2014 22:32

Night Wing wrote:
The old classic XFCE menu is called the "Applications Menu".

Right .........where you want it.
Thanks, that's what I have done, but because of the difficulty in finding the process name I wasn't sure that I had the correct one.

Ray

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Re: XFCE

Postby GNUday » 24 Jun 2014 01:24

What eventually forced me from KDE to Xfce was nepomuk and akonadi, I never do 'searches' and I don't need PIM (Personal Information Management). I really pains me to say this but KDE is almost becoming like Windohs, try to uninstall or remove an unwanted component/feature and it breaks, part of the reason I left Windohs. I take great pains to find gtk alternatives to qt based applications found in KDE, just so I don't have to drag 3/4 of KDE in with one simple app or tool, to me, that is ridiculous, even with 'recommends' turned off. I've said this before and I'll say it again, KDE is fine as a full featured corporate environment OS, but on the domestic side, it got too big for its britches. I used to love KDE, until I gave Xfce a 'spin', found it configurable, it can be pretty if you want (compositing included) and a lot of old favourite gtk apps work without a boat load of dependencies, lol. :roll: :lol:

Just my € 0.01371118 (two Canadian cents, lol), you asked. ;) :mrgreen:
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Re: XFCE

Postby Orbmiser » 24 Jun 2014 01:53

Hmmm my nepomuk semantic desktop was disabled by default System Settings>desktop search. And everything de-selected in Indexing. And don't have it or akonadi running as don't use Kmail or Pim or any of those type programs.

But they can easily be disabled.
http://www.databook.bz/?page_id=3728

The easy way: Disable Nepomuk and Akonadi completely. Nepomuk can be disabled by going to systemsettings>Desktop Search and unchecking "Enable Nepomuk Semantic Desktop" and systemsettings>Startup and Shutdown>Service Manager and unchecking "Nepomuk Search Module".

And nepomuk is being phased out in favor of Baloo. Don't know if it will be any better. As like you I don't need connecting/indexing everything on my desktop. And
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Re: XFCE

Postby GNUday » 24 Jun 2014 04:38

Orbmiser wrote:Hmmm my nepomuk semantic desktop was disabled by default System Settings>desktop search. And everything de-selected in Indexing. And don't have it or akonadi running as don't use Kmail or Pim or any of those type programs.

But they can easily be disabled.
http://www.databook.bz/?page_id=3728

The easy way: Disable Nepomuk and Akonadi completely. Nepomuk can be disabled by going to systemsettings>Desktop Search and unchecking "Enable Nepomuk Semantic Desktop" and systemsettings>Startup and Shutdown>Service Manager and unchecking "Nepomuk Search Module".

And nepomuk is being phased out in favor of Baloo. Don't know if it will be any better. As like you I don't need connecting/indexing everything on my desktop. And
Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, lol, aside from that huge headache (endless digging around directories and config files), try uninstalling those monstrosities, it smashes KDE to pieces, it shouldn't be like that, it should be a few un-checks in the GUI and they're both completely 'killed', not restarting because some other component/app (that KDE won't let you uninstall) in KDE demands or asks for them, that's soooooo MS like software behaviour. Trust me when I say I can spend hours researching something and pulling my hair out to get things my way, which I did many times, only to accidentally click on something in the menu that involuntarily starts wallet or some other garbage, and it wouldn't let up, constant nagging to create profiles, databases, error messages you can't get rid of, etc, and this is after I thought I completely killed the uninstallable hidden beasts. I'm not the type to give up easy or turn my back on something, but when it comes to over-engineered KDE, I had enough. In Xfce, there is none, nada, zero of that annoying behaviour, you can bloat it up or strip it down as much as you want, YOU own your desktop, not the anal, over enthusiastic, over thinking KDE code weavers. :shock: :?
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Re: XFCE

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 24 Jun 2014 05:10

:lol: ...and to know SolydX was created, and still maintained on....tadaaa: SolydK! :mrgreen:


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Re: XFCE

Postby Zill » 24 Jun 2014 10:56

While KDE is very powerful and therefore has the capability to do real tasks, I do agree with GNUday that it is far too bloated and over-engineered. By trying to be "all things to all men" it is loaded with intertwined programs that are very difficult for the user to configure, let alone remove if unwanted.

Unless KDE has improved lately, there are numerous configuration options buried within the extensive menus that, in many cases, mean little to inexperienced users. Ask a user new to KDE if they really want "Nepomuk" or "Akonadi" to be installed and you are very likely to get a blank look! Even now, I only have a vague idea of what they both actually do!

The KDE design emphasis seems to be to emulate some of the worst characteristics of proprietary OS's by throwing in lots of eye-candy to make it look bright and shiny. Simple efficient functionality seems to take the back seat.

OTOH, XFCE and Mate seem to reverse these design priorities, which suits me fine. :-)


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