Thoughts about Bleachbit

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SolydForEver
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Thoughts about Bleachbit

Postby SolydForEver » 12 Nov 2016 07:13

I am a frequent user on the LinuxMint forum and pretty often somebody writes he has used Bleachbit to clean his computer and now things don't work anymore, or they miss a large piece of there harddrive.
Just to make sure I have absolutely no intention of starting to use it.
Is it really necessary to use it, is it the "wrecking ball" as somebody calls it, can you do the same tasks in a different way?

One reason of starting this thread is that Bleachbit is in the repositories here so people can find and install it. Isn't it better to remove it so it is harder for people to install and start using it? I mean, do we also want to have the same threads here: I used Bleachbit and now I can not boot....Help!!

What are your thoughts about using Bleachbit?

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grizzler
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Re: Thoughts about Bleachbit

Postby grizzler » 12 Nov 2016 13:26

It's in Debian's main repository, so removing it really isn't an option.

I've never used it myself, so I don't know from experience how dangerous it is. As you've noticed, there are people with very strong opinions about it. Some of those people certainly know what they're talking about, so I wouldn't advise anyone to use it unless they really know what they're doing. It certainly isn't something anyone would need to use.
Frank

SolydX EE 64 - tracking Debian Testing

kurotsugi
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Re: Thoughts about Bleachbit

Postby kurotsugi » 12 Nov 2016 14:34


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grizzler
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Re: Thoughts about Bleachbit

Postby grizzler » 12 Nov 2016 16:37

I suppose so.
Frank

SolydX EE 64 - tracking Debian Testing

kurotsugi
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Re: Thoughts about Bleachbit

Postby kurotsugi » 12 Nov 2016 20:00

I haven't tested it yet but if the proposed method works, then there's no harm to block it to protect the user. if the team agree, perhaps we should do that.

though, somehow personally I hate this idea.

SolydForEver
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Re: Thoughts about Bleachbit

Postby SolydForEver » 12 Nov 2016 20:06

kurotsugi wrote:I haven't tested it yet but if the proposed method works, then there's no harm to block it to protect the user. if the team agree, perhaps we should do that.

though, somehow personally I hate this idea.


You hate to do this cause you hate to take away people's own choice of doing things?
But when you think about it again: doing this could help users, especially newbees, from destroying there system. Right?

kurotsugi
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Re: Thoughts about Bleachbit

Postby kurotsugi » 12 Nov 2016 22:25

if think about it carefully, blocking bleachbit is taking away users choice. if we block it, user no longer could install it. ain't it?

i've used bleachbit, though I haven't tried all the feature. they were work just fine. i think it's understandable that several things in open source world doesn't work as expected. bleachbit isn't alone in this regard. the developer and debian people have work so hard to provide these softwares for the user. yes, it's not perfect but _I think_ we still need to show some respect for them.

perhaps I'm alone who think like this. as I've said earlier, I didn't against blocking it if the team want it. it's not the first time I saw bleachbit wrecking a system so perhaps it's right to block it.

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ilu
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Re: Thoughts about Bleachbit

Postby ilu » 13 Nov 2016 00:33

I don't think it's necessary to start radical measures. I can't see rising numbers of people on this forum having problems with bleachbit. I wouldn't encourage its use, obviously.

As I already said in another thread https://forums.solydxk.com/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=6453&p=61601&hilit=bleachbit&#p61601 part of the problem is that Software Manager recommends Bleachbit as No. 1 in system tools. People are so foolish to vote for it and there is no mention of its dangers. That does mislead people, esp. ex-MS-Users, who would think from the description that it is a must-have.
People using exclusively Synaptic would never stumble over Bleachbit by accident. So the better solution would be to completely get rid of software manager in the standard install replacing it with an improved broader version of SolydX welcome. I wanted to work on that but instead of learning python as I originally wanted I now have to do php instead.

"Censoring" Bleachbit is the wrong approach. It could give SolydXK a bad name.

SolydForEver
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Re: Thoughts about Bleachbit

Postby SolydForEver » 13 Nov 2016 04:21

ilu wrote:I don't think it's necessary to start radical measures. I can't see rising numbers of people on this forum having problems with bleachbit. I wouldn't encourage its use, obviously.

As I already said in another thread https://forums.solydxk.com/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=6453&p=61601&hilit=bleachbit&#p61601 part of the problem is that Software Manager recommends Bleachbit as No. 1 in system tools. People are so foolish to vote for it and there is no mention of its dangers. That does mislead people, esp. ex-MS-Users, who would think from the description that it is a must-have.
People using exclusively Synaptic would never stumble over Bleachbit by accident. So the better solution would be to completely get rid of software manager in the standard install replacing it with an improved broader version of SolydX welcome. I wanted to work on that but instead of learning python as I originally wanted I now have to do php instead.

"Censoring" Bleachbit is the wrong approach. It could give SolydXK a bad name.


Code: Select all

"Censoring" Bleachbit is the wrong approach. It could give SolydXK a bad name.
But:

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So the better solution would be to completely get rid of software manager in the standard install replacing it with an improved broader version of SolydX welcome.

is a better way?
Sorry, but I always use software manager and I don't want to loose this because others want to install Bleachbit.

I have started this discussion because, especially on the Mint forums, every so often there is a thread about Bleachbit:

Code: Select all

I am a newb, I used Bleachbit and now my computer does not want to start. Help!!!

I asked is it necessary to use it or can those tasks be done any other way? I have never used it, I have never seen the program and I think I better leave it like that, seeing the threads on the forums.
Why not help those newbs who, when changing from Windows to Linux, still think they have to clean there system by means of extra software? If blocking to install this program is out of line, then is a severe warning in its place? The same kind of warnings you find on cigarette packages nowadays (wel, here in The Netherlands you see them): Smoking KILLS! Smoking causes Cancer!
Or is this also out of line? But warning people is a good idea, right? Maybe in a more friendly way, but strong enough so they see the software can destroy when not used right.

kurotsugi
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Re: Thoughts about Bleachbit

Postby kurotsugi » 13 Nov 2016 06:35

ilu is more or less like me who prefer another way than blocking bleachbit. we do agree that we should help user but we think blocking bleachbit is not a good way to do it.

there are several another way. for an example, we can choose educational stuff, like creating a banner the put it on the site. create a post then make it a sticky post. create a tutorial about how to safely use bleachbit. etc. there are lot of way to help the user other than blocking it.

it's exactly same with smoking case. they create banner, poster, lot of educational thing so that people not smoking. however, they never shut the factory nor marks cigarette as ilegal stuff. it's a balanced and good way to both help people and showing respect for people freedom.

SolydForEver
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Re: Thoughts about Bleachbit

Postby SolydForEver » 13 Nov 2016 07:29

kurotsugi wrote:ilu is more or less like me who prefer another way than blocking bleachbit. we do agree that we should help user but we think blocking bleachbit is not a good way to do it.

there are several another way. for an example, we can choose educational stuff, like creating a banner the put it on the site. create a post then make it a sticky post. create a tutorial about how to safely use bleachbit. etc. there are lot of way to help the user other than blocking it.

it's exactly same with smoking case. they create banner, poster, lot of educational thing so that people not smoking. however, they never shut the factory nor marks cigarette as ilegal stuff. it's a balanced and good way to both help people and showing respect for people freedom.


So we agree that something could be done, we also agree about the information and warnings. That's a good start. Maybe blocking is too much but it will be good if, especially new, users are informed about the risks of using Bleachbit.

SolydForEver
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Re: Thoughts about Bleachbit

Postby SolydForEver » 13 Nov 2016 11:16


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ilu
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Re: Thoughts about Bleachbit

Postby ilu » 13 Nov 2016 16:44

Do they use the same software manager on mint we use? Or at least the same votes system? I guess so. I can check next wednesday.

In that case no wonder people ruin their system with it. Bleachbit is prominently advertised in Software Manager to be a must-have without any warning. That's a problem. If people would search for it on the internet they would immediately see the compilications it causes. The votes for it in Software Manager need to be gone or the warning needs to be put there. Both is not possible without doctoring the code. That's why I said purge SM from the standard install.

Solydforever, if you want the Software Manager you can always install it from the repos. Absolutely no problem. But for many people coming directly from MSWin it can be a danger.


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