How about a 'SolydXK Next' iso

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Fargo
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Joined: 17 Sep 2013 14:40

How about a 'SolydXK Next' iso

Postby Fargo » 19 Jan 2017 23:25

As I understand it Debian will freeze Stretch in February. How much changes between freeze and final release? Is it possible/reasonable to get an early release of SolydXK after freeze but before it is 'Stable'?

I guess what I am thinking is that we now have the community EE editions with the repos pointing at 'Testing'. If I'm not mistaken 'Testing' and 'Stretch' should be more or less the same at this point in time and will move in sync until 'Stretch' becomes 'Stable'. At which point 'Stretch' and Stable are the same. So is it possible to branch the EE editions with the 'SolydXK NEXT' repos pointing to 'Stretch' and make an iso shortly after freeze that will eventually be developed into the next version of SolydXK?

If the Debian repos are fairly stable after freeze, it seems to me this should be a pretty stable distro. This would give SolydXK users the option to install the upcoming Stable before its officially release. I think this would appeal to those who prefer a fixed release distro, but who are anxious to move on to the next release. Not only that but it gives SolydXK a little extra exposure in distrowatch for having one of the first releases for Debian Stretch.

I realize that this is not exactly 'Stable' and I think that would need to be made clear. That is why I would propose calling it SolydXK NEXT. Or something along that line. I know 'Next' is kind of the 'in thing' for naming schemes right now. But it does get the point across. I think this could be done by a simple wallpaper change.

I'm not suggesting we go back to the semi-rolling release distro. I realize that was too much work for Schoelje. I am just suggesting sort of an interim release. Unless of course too much changes after freeze that it will cause issues upgrading NEXT to the production version. But if a pre-release NEXT version could roll right into the final production version, this would be a great way to get an early release of SolyXK 9 out.

kurotsugi
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Re: How about a 'SolydXK Next' iso

Postby kurotsugi » 20 Jan 2017 00:08

I think the enthusiast version is what exactly you described as "solydxk next".
How much changes between freeze and final release? Is it possible/reasonable to get an early release of SolydXK after freeze but before it is 'Stable'?
usually, not much. it depends on the release team policy but in these years the got really strict on the rule (they even got stricter this year) so there won't be much changed. now it only receive bug fixing stuffs. the freeze period is the best time to move between stable - testing because at that time testing is more or less have same stability with stable. you can safely jump from stable to testing, enjoy the next stable early or just stay on testing. the minus side would be we didn't provide the newest iso yet so you might need to jump manually by upgrading your system. just make sure you create a backup of your system before upgrading and you'll be fine.
So is it possible to branch the EE editions with the 'SolydXK NEXT' repos pointing to 'Stretch' and make an iso shortly after freeze that will eventually be developed into the next version of SolydXK?
as I've said earlier, there's no need to do that. there's no point maintaining two iso since they're same thing. stretch is testing so whatever name you use will be fine. just make sure you have correct entry on your repo address. the difference is that if you're using 'stretch', when debian got released, you'll on stable. meanwhile, you'll stay on testing if you're using 'testing'. I don't know whether if we will ready to release new iso on february because we still have several problems here. though, you always can jump to testing by yourself. that's a lot easier than reinstall.

Fargo
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Joined: 17 Sep 2013 14:40

Re: How about a 'SolydXK Next' iso

Postby Fargo » 20 Jan 2017 05:46

kurotsugi wrote: snipped ... as I've said earlier, there's no need to do that. there's no point maintaining two iso since they're same thing. stretch is testing so whatever name you use will be fine. just make sure you have correct entry on your repo address. the difference is that if you're using 'stretch', when debian got released, you'll on stable. meanwhile, you'll stay on testing if you're using 'testing'.


I guess I was just looking for an enthusiast edition iso with the repositories already seat to 'Stretch' so I didn't have to change them. I want to stick with the Stable releases, but I am excited about KDE5 so I'm looking forward to the new release. Maybe next time the EE editions get a new iso this could be considered. If not I guess I could change the repos manually if I know what repos to use for 'Stretch'.

If this would cause maintenance issues due to differences between an early Freeze release and a final stable release then I can understand not wanting to have a large group of people installing from Freeze.

I'll likely wait until a new iso is issued. Either an EE edition or the final stable release. I did an install from the current EE iso on a test machine but I had some issues after I did all the updates. I updated my system with su apt-get distro-upgrade. Maybe I should have just used Synaptic. But that didn't work the first time I tried it for some reason. Anyway, I'll most likely wait until an new iso is issued before I do anything.

kurotsugi wrote: I don't know whether if we will ready to release new iso on february because we still have several problems here. though, you always can jump to testing by yourself. that's a lot easier than reinstall.

What kind of problems? Is this something to be concerned about?

It is tempting to just change my current repos to Stretch and do an update. But I fear I will end up reinstalling everything at that point if it breaks. I had some issues when I updated the latest EE iso so I'm not sure what would happen if I changed my current Jessie install to Stretch. But its tempting. Maybe after the freeze I will post back for some instructions on how to do that.

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ilu
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Re: How about a 'SolydXK Next' iso

Postby ilu » 20 Jan 2017 06:02

You can read about the current problems here: https://forums.solydxk.com/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=253. kurotsugi named some of the problems there. Also, if you follow this thread https://forums.solydxk.com/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=5681&start=120 you'll be informed on any current ISO-related problems.

kurotsugi
Posts: 1762
Joined: 09 Jan 2014 00:17

Re: How about a 'SolydXK Next' iso

Postby kurotsugi » 20 Jan 2017 07:43

I guess I was just looking for an enthusiast edition iso with the repositories already seat to 'Stretch' so I didn't have to change them. I want to stick with the Stable releases, but I am excited about KDE5 so I'm looking forward to the new release. Maybe next time the EE editions get a new iso this could be considered. If not I guess I could change the repos manually if I know what repos to use for 'Stretch'.

If this would cause maintenance issues due to differences between an early Freeze release and a final stable release then I can understand not wanting to have a large group of people installing from Freeze.
it's just a minor tweak

Code: Select all

#testing
deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free
#next-stable
deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free
replace 'testing' with 'stretch' and all is set. there's no maintainance issue. if you're using enthusiast, simply change the repo to stretch and do nothing except do minor updates periodically (just like what you did on stable). it will seamlesly changed into stable when debian got new release.
What kind of problems? Is this something to be concerned about?
since you mentioned about solydK, sadly, you'll get more problem during update. the transition between KDE to plasma haven't established yet. that's why you got several problems when updating your EE. I haven't write them because I didn't have enough information what the problem was.

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Zill
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Location: Lincolnshire, UK

Re: How about a 'SolydXK Next' iso

Postby Zill » 20 Jan 2017 12:18

Fargo wrote:... I want to stick with the Stable releases...
... It is tempting to just change my current repos to Stretch and do an update. But I fear I will end up reinstalling everything at that point if it breaks.

These two comments are incompatible!

Users who want a solid reliable system that always works should run a release based on Debian stable, such as the SolydXK main editions.

Users who want to experiment with the "next" release can run SolydXK EE based on Debian testing. However, such users must appreciate that this release is not stable and is liable to breakage.

If you do wish to stay with the stable release then you will not need a new ISO as it should be quite possible to dist-upgrade from the Debian jessie base to the Debian stretch base after stretch has been officially released as the new stable.

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ilu
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Re: How about a 'SolydXK Next' iso

Postby ilu » 20 Jan 2017 13:30

And those people who want to be especially save, should wait with the dist-upgrade untill the more adventurous people have gone through with it, especially with SolydK (and on server systems). I know we will wait a month or two with our servers. We already had trouble enough with the last point release on stable, several VMs are still not back to normal. So even stable can get unstable under unfortunate circumstances.

Fargo
Posts: 872
Joined: 17 Sep 2013 14:40

Re: How about a 'SolydXK Next' iso

Postby Fargo » 20 Jan 2017 16:43

Zill wrote:
Fargo wrote:
Users who want a solid reliable system that always works should run a release based on Debian stable, such as the SolydXK main editions.

Users who want to experiment with the "next" release can run SolydXK EE based on Debian testing. However, such users must appreciate that this release is not stable and is liable to breakage.

If you do wish to stay with the stable release then you will not need a new ISO as it should be quite possible to dist-upgrade from the Debian jessie base to the Debian stretch base after stretch has been officially released as the new stable.


Yep, I realize the 'next, release is not stable. I guess I am caught somewhere between wanting stable and testing. In short I want stable, but I'm OK with testing for a short time to get the latest and greatest. But if KDE is having issues upgrading I better wait. I don't think I have the time right now to trouble shoot if problems arise. Sounds like it might be best for me to just 'distr-upgrade' my current install after the freeze any way. So I think I can wait a month to do that:)

Thanks guys.

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Zill
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Location: Lincolnshire, UK

Re: How about a 'SolydXK Next' iso

Postby Zill » 20 Jan 2017 17:37

Fargo wrote:... Sounds like it might be best for me to just 'distr-upgrade' my current install after the freeze any way. So I think I can wait a month to do that:)

You can, of course, do that but please don't assume that will remove the need for you to troubleshoot problems. "Freeze" basically means feature-freeze and its function is to allow debugging to continue with fixed packages that are no longer continually changing. During the freeze, you will still experience breakages as packages gradually get debugged preparatory for the next stable release.

To avoid breakage, you really need to wait until (1) Debian have offically released stretch as the new stable release and (2) The SolydXK testing team have ensured that all SolydXK packages work properly with the stretch base.

If you can accept breakage on your system then it will be very useful if you join the SolydXK testing team and help debug the upgraded release.

Fargo
Posts: 872
Joined: 17 Sep 2013 14:40

Re: How about a 'SolydXK Next' iso

Postby Fargo » 20 Jan 2017 18:09

Zill wrote:
Fargo wrote:... Sounds like it might be best for me to just 'distr-upgrade' my current install after the freeze any way. So I think I can wait a month to do that:)

You can, of course, do that but please don't assume that will remove the need for you to troubleshoot problems. "Freeze" basically means feature-freeze and its function is to allow debugging to continue with fixed packages that are no longer continually changing. During the freeze, you will still experience breakages as packages gradually get debugged preparatory for the next stable release.

To avoid breakage, you really need to wait until (1) Debian have offically released stretch as the new stable release and (2) The SolydXK testing team have ensured that all SolydXK packages work properly with the stretch base.

If you can accept breakage on your system then it will be very useful if you join the SolydXK testing team and help debug the upgraded release.


Thank you. I got confused in my thinking there for a minute. I meant to say I will dist-upgrade after Stretch is Stable.

I wish I could help with the testing team. I would enjoy doing that, but I just don't have the time (or probably the ability) to do that right now.


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