Improve localization

Here is the place were the team and the community projects meet together. Help us to develop SolydXK projects or contribute your ideas for future releases.
User avatar
Arjen Balfoort
Site Admin
Posts: 8844
Joined: 26 Jan 2013 19:36
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Improve localization

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 26 Jun 2014 10:10

Thanks to one of our users, balloon, I've adapted the Live Installer (the software you use to install SolydXK on your system) so that it supports the custom installation needed to further localize your system.

Up until now, only some installed packages were localized: KDE, LibreOffice, AbiWord, FireFox, Thunderbird.
With the next Live Installer we can add a list of additional packages needed to further improve the usability of the localized system.

Such a config file is named as the corresponding language code, and contains a space separated list of packages per distribution.

Here you see an example of the ja_JP file:

Code: Select all

all = fonts-vlgothic fonts-takao im-config fcitx fcitx-mozc fcitx-frontend-gtk3 fcitx-ui-classic fcitx-config-gtk mozc-utils-gui
solydk32 = fonts-vlgothic fonts-takao im-config fcitx fcitx-mozc fcitx-frontend-gtk3 fcitx-ui-classic fcitx-config-gtk mozc-utils-gui
solydk64 = fonts-vlgothic fonts-takao im-config fcitx fcitx-mozc fcitx-frontend-gtk3 fcitx-ui-classic fcitx-config-gtk mozc-utils-gui
solydx32 = fonts-vlgothic fonts-takao im-config fcitx fcitx-mozc fcitx-frontend-gtk3 fcitx-ui-classic fcitx-config-gtk mozc-utils-gui
solydx64 = fonts-vlgothic fonts-takao im-config fcitx fcitx-mozc fcitx-frontend-gtk3 fcitx-ui-classic fcitx-config-gtk mozc-utils-gui
Now I want to ask anybody, who thinks that localization for his/her language can be improved this way, to create such a configuration file, and post that here.


Languages done:
  • Japanese (ja_JP)
  • Chinese (zh_CN/zh_HK/zh_SG/zh_TW)
  • Korean (ko_KR)
Scripts:
live-installer-localize.tar.gz
(563 Bytes) Downloaded 96 times


SolydXK needs you!
Development | Testing | Translations

User avatar
Arjen Balfoort
Site Admin
Posts: 8844
Joined: 26 Jan 2013 19:36
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Improve localization

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 28 Jun 2015 14:43

I have been looking at the Chinese localization today and I could use some help from somebody who has experience with this.
The current list of applications is inspired by this link:

This is the list of packages and locale is already set by the live-installer to zh_CN: http://www.brunuslab.net/Operating-Syst ... fcitx.html

Code: Select all

fcitx fcitx-sunpinyin fcitx-libpinyin fcitx-googlepinyin fcitx-frontend-gtk3 fcitx-ui-classic fcitx-config-gtk
Your input is very welcome!

[EDIT]
Do I need to install Chinese fonts and if so: which ones (xfonts-intl-chinese)?


SolydXK needs you!
Development | Testing | Translations

User avatar
Arjen Balfoort
Site Admin
Posts: 8844
Joined: 26 Jan 2013 19:36
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Improve localization

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 29 Jun 2015 14:10

OP updated: added Chinese and Korean scripts.


SolydXK needs you!
Development | Testing | Translations

vacnt
Posts: 30
Joined: 23 Oct 2014 19:24

Localized LibreOffice requires additional Chinese font

Postby vacnt » 01 Apr 2016 19:14

This is more like an improvement request than a bug report.

The clean installation of solydx_8_64_201601.iso with language set to Chinese (China) doesn't install the font used by LibreOffice, this results in some Chinese characters appearing as squares. It can be fixed by installing fonts-wqy-microhei and/or fonts-wqy-zenhei

Screenshot before font installation:
clean_install.png
Screenshot after font installation:
font_installed.png

User avatar
Arjen Balfoort
Site Admin
Posts: 8844
Joined: 26 Jan 2013 19:36
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Improve localization

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 02 Apr 2016 08:35

I moved your post to this topic.

Thank you for the feedback.
I see that SolydK has fonts-wqy-microhei installed by default but SolydX hasn't.
I'll include it in the next ISO.

[Edit]
I've changed the localization packages for zh_CN in the Live Installer to:

Code: Select all

fonts-wqy-microhei fonts-wqy-zenhei fonts-arphic-ukai fonts-arphic-uming im-config fcitx fcitx-sunpinyin fcitx-libpinyin fcitx-googlepinyin fcitx-frontend-gtk3 fcitx-ui-classic fcitx-config-gtk
Is this correct?


SolydXK needs you!
Development | Testing | Translations

User avatar
Arjen Balfoort
Site Admin
Posts: 8844
Joined: 26 Jan 2013 19:36
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Improve localization

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 02 Apr 2016 11:50

Shouldn't this be installed as well?

Code: Select all

fcitx-table-all
Currently, these two packages are installed:

Code: Select all

fcitx-sunpinyin fcitx-googlepinyin
but shouldn't be just one of the two be installed (not both)?


SolydXK needs you!
Development | Testing | Translations

vacnt
Posts: 30
Joined: 23 Oct 2014 19:24

Re: Improve localization

Postby vacnt » 02 Apr 2016 13:07

The fonts look correct.

Regarding fcitx IME (input method editor), I'm talking about the Simplified Chinese used in mainland China here. They're a few Chinese IMEs, most people use pinyin (based on phonetics), that's why the mainland Chinese version of Windows XP only comes with a couple of different pinyin IMEs installed by default. Windows 10 allows the user to choose the IME during installation, and the default is MS pinyin.

fcitx-table-all contains less popular IMEs. I think it's OK to install it for completeness, it's also OK to not install it to avoid bloat without affecting usability given that Windows only installs pinyin by default.

fcitx-sunpinyin and fcitx-googlepinyin are two different pinyin IMEs, the latter I think (based on what the Windows and Android versions do) may use big data (connect to remote servers to upload the usage pattern and update the vocabulary) to improve autocompletion etc, it may raise privacy concerns for some people, and there're also people who don't mind or are just ignorant. Sunpinyin also analyzes usage pattern to improve autocompletion, but it keeps the data locally and doesn't connect to remote servers.

[Edit]
According to some websites, fcitx-googlepinyin is ported from the googlepinyin engine on Android, I'm not sure if the cloud functionality is still there.

Personally if I could only keep one of the two pinyin IMEs above, I would keep sunpinyin. I haven't used googlepinyin for a few years, but that's just me.



Here's another issue about the font:

WINE was able to display Chinese characters correctly last year (probably using font substitute as the font didn't look right until I copied SimSun/NSimSun from Windows). Now after clean installation all Chinese characters appear as vertical bars.

Did something change in the default SolydX packages? Or is this a WINE regression?

regedit:
regedit.png
PlayOnLinux mono installation:
pol_mono.png
pol_mono.png (5.22 KiB) Viewed 6116 times

User avatar
Arjen Balfoort
Site Admin
Posts: 8844
Joined: 26 Jan 2013 19:36
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Improve localization

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 02 Apr 2016 13:33

I really have no idea, sorry.

Could you give me a list with packages that you install to localize to Chinese?


SolydXK needs you!
Development | Testing | Translations

vacnt
Posts: 30
Joined: 23 Oct 2014 19:24

Re: Improve localization

Postby vacnt » 02 Apr 2016 14:30

The only additional packages I've installed so far are the two fonts mentioned earlier.

I symlinked the wqy fonts to drive_c/windows/Fonts/, and characters are displayed correctly now, maybe there's a setting somewhere I need to change to make WINE use the system fonts, if not, I don't think many users are keen on doing this themselves for each wineprefix.

Font symlinked:
regedit.png

User avatar
Arjen Balfoort
Site Admin
Posts: 8844
Joined: 26 Jan 2013 19:36
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Improve localization

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 02 Apr 2016 14:58

Wine "should" pick up all fonts in /usr/share/fonts but obviously it doesn't :(


SolydXK needs you!
Development | Testing | Translations

User avatar
ilu
Posts: 2044
Joined: 09 Oct 2013 12:45

Re: Improve localization

Postby ilu » 02 Apr 2016 19:35

When talking about simplified chinese and mainland China we should not forget Taiwan, Hongkong and chinese expatriates and scholars who use traditional chinese - so if fcitx-table-all makes things easier for traditional chinese (does it, vacnt? - I don't know) then Solid should have it.

vacnt
Posts: 30
Joined: 23 Oct 2014 19:24

Re: Improve localization

Postby vacnt » 04 Apr 2016 17:27

ilu wrote:When talking about simplified chinese and mainland China we should not forget Taiwan, Hongkong and chinese expatriates and scholars who use traditional chinese - so if fcitx-table-all makes things easier for traditional chinese (does it, vacnt? - I don't know) then Solid should have it.
There're two main types of Chinese IMEs, phonetic-based and shape-based. fcitx-table-all contains shape-based IMEs.

The phonetic system in mainland China is pinyin, jyutping in HK and bopomofo/zhuyin in Taiwan. So to make things easier for non-mainland Chinese users, additional phonetic-based IMEs would need to be included too.

Modern IMEs used in mainland China (e.g. sunpinyin) support traditional characters too.

I think IMEs should target end users in the same way locales do. e.g. mainland IMEs and zh_CN locale for mainland Chinese users, HK IMEs and zh_HK locale for HK users, Taiwan IMEs and zh_TW locale for Taiwan users, this is how commercial OSes do it.

fcitx-table-all would make things easier for professional typists in mainland China though as some of them use shape-based IMEs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_i ... _computers
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/fcitx


Here's another localization problem: Chinese characters can't be displayed in Linux console (CTRL+ALT+Fx, not terminal emulator in X).

vacnt
Posts: 30
Joined: 23 Oct 2014 19:24

Re: Improve localization

Postby vacnt » 04 Apr 2016 18:00

Downloading the localization packages during installation doesn't really work for mainland Chinese users because some foreign sites are blocked there. When I tried last time, the installer complained that there's no internet connection and localization packages would not be installed.

Even if there's a way to force it to download, it still wouldn't work well, because packet loss would occur after a certain amount of data is transferred to/from some foreign sites, then the download speed would drop substantially. I remember it took half an hour to download a 25MB file required by WINE/PlayOnLinux. The solydxk updater only worked once in a while (no Internet connection error usually), Debian mirror servers in China seemed OK though, but security.debian.org suffered from the same slowness problem.

A localized ISO would be one way to address some of these problems.

User avatar
Arjen Balfoort
Site Admin
Posts: 8844
Joined: 26 Jan 2013 19:36
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Improve localization

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 06 Apr 2016 14:29

vacnt wrote:A localized ISO would be one way to address some of these problems.
Sorry for the late reply.
Localized versions are community editions maintained by somebody fluent in the language of the localized ISO.
I'm not able to create such an ISO. So, if you're willing to create and maintain such an ISO I'll gladly host the ISOs (SolydX and SolydK) on my server.

It would also be great to have a mirror in China but that seems impossible, I'm afraid.


SolydXK needs you!
Development | Testing | Translations

vacnt
Posts: 30
Joined: 23 Oct 2014 19:24

Re: Improve localization

Postby vacnt » 09 Apr 2016 21:04

Is it possible to do something to make Internet detection work in mainland China, or let the user override?

Regarding WINE font problem, I asked in the WINEHQ forum, I was told it's probably missing a 32-bit freetype library, so I installed libxft2:i386 and it works. I initially didn't know it only affected 32-bit WINE

User avatar
Arjen Balfoort
Site Admin
Posts: 8844
Joined: 26 Jan 2013 19:36
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Improve localization

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 09 Apr 2016 22:15

vacnt wrote:Is it possible to do something to make Internet detection work in mainland China, or let the user override?
I don't think I understand what you mean but if updating from our server is the problem then the only thing you can do is commenting out the line to our server in /etc/apt/sources.list. However, that will stop all future updates from our server. The best solution would be a mirror in mainland China, I'm afraid.
vacnt wrote:Regarding WINE font problem, I asked in the WINEHQ forum, I was told it's probably missing a 32-bit freetype library, so I installed libxft2:i386 and it works. I initially didn't know it only affected 32-bit WINE
Thanks, I'll update the wine script in the Welcome Screen. In the Welcome Screen you can select to install PlayOnLinux and libxft2:i386 was missing from the list of packages.


SolydXK needs you!
Development | Testing | Translations

vacnt
Posts: 30
Joined: 23 Oct 2014 19:24

Re: Improve localization

Postby vacnt » 10 Apr 2016 09:39

I assume the localization packages are downloaded from Debian servers instead of SolydXK servers during installation? It would be better to let it download and install these packages even if it cannot connect to servers (SolydXK servers?) used by Internet detection.

The system update icon is quite useful, but it may show connection error when Debian servers still work, maybe Internet detection there can be changed/customized too?

User avatar
Arjen Balfoort
Site Admin
Posts: 8844
Joined: 26 Jan 2013 19:36
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: Improve localization

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 10 Apr 2016 11:57

vacnt wrote:I assume the localization packages are downloaded from Debian servers instead of SolydXK servers during installation?
That is correct, but it also tries to upgrade the installed system with "apt-get upgrade" when there is an internet connection.
vacnt wrote:It would be better to let it download and install these packages even if it cannot connect to servers (SolydXK servers?) used by Internet detection.
I always assumed it would do that after a time-out on the "apt-get update" command. Never tried it out, though.
vacnt wrote:The system update icon is quite useful, but it may show connection error when Debian servers still work, maybe Internet detection there can be changed/customized too?
From a SolydXK point of view, the SolydXK server is leading. It makes a Debian base into SolydXK. So, if the SolydXK server is unreachable, it's no use to continue. Like I said, you can adapt /etc/apt/sources.list and comment out our server but for me it has no priority to solve it programatically. However, if you know how to program (Python3) you can check out the project's Github page: https://github.com/SolydXK


SolydXK needs you!
Development | Testing | Translations

linuxuser1
Posts: 1
Joined: 05 Oct 2018 06:35

Re: Improve localization

Postby linuxuser1 » 05 Oct 2018 07:11

Pure Debian has meta-packages for numerous languages. Debian already includes the meta-packages corresponding to the chosen language during system installation. Of course any language meta-package can also be added later.
For Chinese (simplified): sudo apt-get install task-chinese-s task-chinese-s-desktop
For French: sudo apt-get install task-french task-french-desktop
etc...


Return to “Suggestions & ideas / Open Projects”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest