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systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 31 Dec 2013 18:06
by TheMadMechanic
First off: https://wiki.debian.org/systemd

I know this is Debian based and Debian doesn't use systemd by default

I'd love to see SolydXK go systemd by default. It would take some work but I'd even be willing to financially kick into a pot to make it happen.

Thoughts?

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 31 Dec 2013 19:14
by Orbmiser
Well the Ashes haven't cleared yet.

http://lwn.net/Articles/578208/

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ ... ians_init/

And guess I started a firestorm when I asked what's so important about portability and reasons for supporting Hurd/BSD which make up 0.09% of the Linux masses. And one of the reasons given for not going systemd is portability for them.
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/ ... s_of_code/

And still have to wait for Debian to make a decision on the issue.
And don't think the Solyd Team really has the time or numbers to tackle something along these lines?

I'm sure they will chime in with their reasonings.

My needs tho as just a desktop user I imagine doesn't see a need in the short term and question whether changing will actually give me any tangible benefits?
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Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 31 Dec 2013 19:57
by ScottQuier
I had a bit of a play with this (--> http://forums.solydxk.nl/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2114) and, for me, there was/is no reason to migrate to systemd. I can see where, eventually, there will be some huge benefits, but it's not there yet.

And, like Orbmiser has said, the SolydXK team doesn't yet have the manpower to tackle something this large; gotta remember, the SoldyXK dev team is only 4 people.

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 31 Dec 2013 20:00
by Orbmiser
Yep I definitely think systemd is a step in the right direction for the future.
And down the road we will begin to gleam the benefits when apps are written to take advantage of it.

But presently it will not give you faster boot times or magically make your system run better.
In fact still needs a lot more work and if anything it's throwing possible issues and bugs into the desktop.
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Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 31 Dec 2013 20:09
by fleabus
Orbmiser wrote:And guess I started a firestorm when I asked what's so important about portability and reasons for supporting Hurd/BSD which make up 0.09% of the Linux masses. And one of the reasons given for not going systemd is portability for them.
You go Orb! Very interesting reading over there!
Orbmiser wrote:And still have to wait for Debian to make a decision on the issue.
Definitely. The way I see it we shouldn't even try to get involved in this. Never mind the lack of manpower, it simply wouldn't make any difference until Mom & Dad decide what they're gonna do with this whole init thing. And then just go with the flow. IMHO we're a Debian distro, so we use Debian's init system (whatever it turns out to be) in order to remain 100% Debian compatible. The beauty of it is that anyone is free to do with it as they wish. I followed Scott's systemd posts with great interest. And got busy. Or sidetracked from my sidetrack. Or something... :lol:

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 31 Dec 2013 20:30
by Orbmiser
Yep don't mind the negative attacks as that's how I learn from others that are more knowledgeable.
Pointing out flaws in my opinions and biases.

But still confused why portability is so damn important to Debian when we are talking the 0.09% of Linux Hurd/BSD crowd. I'm all for portability until it starts to hinder or hold back. Or in Debian way used as a poor argument against systemd.

But hey no biggie. Might not even be here on the planet when the benefits are realized and utilized later.
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Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 31 Dec 2013 20:38
by fleabus
Orbmiser wrote:Or in Debian way used as a poor argument against systemd.
FWIW, I quite agree. But all that is so far above my paygrade I'm chokin' for lack of oxygen up here. I shall leave it to those greater than myself... :lol:

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 31 Dec 2013 23:14
by Deleted User 2763
BTW... siduction just released with systemd.
-Hinto

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 31 Dec 2013 23:30
by fleabus
Yes, Interesting! I was just looking at that....

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 05 Jan 2014 05:27
by bodam
I installed systemd on my SolydX system months ago without any issues. Day to day, there is no noticable difference but becuase this is my laptop, and the HD is an SSD, 20 second boot up and 10 second shutdown is nice. I don't have any issues so far. I just have to be careful that the upgrades do not try to put back the old init system

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 17 Jan 2014 15:53
by Omega
Systemd is a dependency for Gnome 3, so Debian is stuck between portability and compatibility.

I personally think Linux is already the open source standard, so I'm more inclined to support Systemd.

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 17 Jan 2014 22:52
by Orbmiser
Spotify throws their weight behind systemd in Debian
http://www.reddit.com/r/LinuxActionShow ... ystemd_in/

Debian May Be Leaning Towards Systemd Over Upstart
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... px=MTU3NDc
Keith Packard of Intel and Debian's newest tech-cttee member, voiced his opinions on the matter this week. Keith ended up being in support of systemd and his opinion basically came down to, "I believe that Debian will need to support multiple init systems going forward, even on Linux. However, on Linux, I believe that the vast majority of Debian users would be best served by encouraging them to use systemd by making that the default."

So seems more slowly leaning towards systemd.
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Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 11 Feb 2014 19:39
by Notsonoble
https://lists.debian.org/debian-ctte/20 ... 00405.html

Looks like Jessie will be systemd by default. So it maybe time for the solyd team to be looking at it.

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 11 Feb 2014 20:43
by wyrdoak
I just gave it a go. I'm using the slower third of my HDD for SolydK because Win7 needs all the help it can get. ;)

Code: Select all

wyrdoak@acer-netbook ~ $ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 12.758s (kernel) + 48.506s (userspace) = 1min 1.264s
More importantly it looks like it fixed the problem of FireFox killing my graphics and having to do a hard reboot. It loves to stick and suck up resources from time to time.
EDIT----
I did have some technical problems with my bluetooth dongle after the change.

To start the bluetooth systemd service use the command:

# systemctl start bluetooth

To enable the bluetooth service at boot time use the command:

# systemctl enable bluetooth

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Bl ... USB_Dongle

Now if I could only get it to work in SolydX.

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 12 Feb 2014 03:57
by sumitb
I also am in favor of using systemd instead of sysv or upstart because of the great boot time performance. I am an intermediately skilled Linux user, using it since 1999 and learning everyday. By far, SUSE and Fedora/Korora have given me the best boot times and debian the worst. Ubuntu based distros came second.

Although its a common notion that Linux users do not reboot their systems much and Bootup speeds don't matter, its not true for me at least. I have a laptop and in my day to day work, i have to move from one place to another twice a day for which I either shutdown or hibernate my system. Solydk is my primary OS and even after some tuning and leaving only services that I use enabled at boot up, I am not able to get anything better than 1 min 40 secs until KDE Desktop becomes functional which is not that high but can be better. On Fedora and OpenSUSE, its around 58 secs to Desktop on the same system. It just feels more responsive and fast with these two.

I am not putting down SolydK or anything, its a fabulous distro and is my primary one. Not using Systemd is just one "shortcoming", if i must say, it has. Otherwise, all the pluses are in its favor.

Oh, there is one more thing that i miss in Debian, deltarpms or deltadebs whatever. I know Debian has its own reasons for not supporting it, but for someone living with limited internet connections, its really a blessing. Last night, my fedora system updated, there was 1 GB of data to download, and deltarpms reduced it to 200 MB!! :)

Anyways, I still like Debian and its philosophies a lot.

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 13 Feb 2014 03:08
by sumitb
BTW, I stumbled across this mailing list post today, which seems we will see some interesting developments related to systemd by end of this year. Well, this is exciting! 8-)

https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-a ... 00004.html

Maybe SolydXK will be able to switch to systemd easily once it is thoroughly tested by debian team :)

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 13 Feb 2014 06:33
by kurotsugi
kurotsugi@kurozv3:~$ systemd-analyze time
Startup finished in 3.013s (kernel) + 10.569s (userspace) = 13.582s
kurotsugi@kurozv3:~$
I can understand that systemd isn't optimized on debian yet but one minute is rather too long. I got my system boot up less than 15 second.

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 14 Feb 2014 01:07
by jeffreyC
sumitb wrote:Oh, there is one more thing that i miss in Debian, deltarpms or deltadebs whatever. I know Debian has its own reasons for not supporting it, but for someone living with limited internet connections, its really a blessing. Last night, my fedora system updated, there was 1 GB of data to download, and deltarpms reduced it to 200 MB!! :)
Though off-topic you should look at debdelta

http://debdelta.debian.net/

https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=debdelta

there is a package for what you want, it simply is not the default.

http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com/2 ... deb-delta/

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 25 Feb 2014 09:56
by Arjen Balfoort
So, I've been playing around with it.
I ran as root:

Code: Select all

apt-get install systemd systemd-sysv
apt-get purge hal*
systemctl enable bluetooth
/usr/bin/yes YES | /usr/sbin/sensors-detect
and rebooted.
I can't say booting is quicker, but it's not slower either.

I am worried about this message during boot:
Failed to start /etc/rc.local Compatibility.
This is what I get when I run "systemctl status rc-local.service", but that doesn't help me much:

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rc-local.service - /etc/rc.local Compatibility
   Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/rc-local.service; static)
   Active: failed (Result: exit-code) since Mon 2014-02-24 23:33:22 HAST; 18min ago
  Process: 802 ExecStart=/etc/rc.local start (code=exited, status=32)
I've been searching the net, but haven't come close to an explanation, nor a solution.
Does anybody know about this?

Re: systemd on Solydxk

Posted: 25 Feb 2014 16:35
by wyrdoak
I still new, so not really sure what it does yet. But here's mine.

Code: Select all

acer-netbook wyrdoak # systemctl status rc-local.service
rc-local.service - /etc/rc.local Compatibility
   Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/rc-local.service; static)
   Active: failed (Result: exit-code) since Tue 2014-02-25 06:10:03 EST; 5h 21min ago

Feb 25 06:10:03 acer-netbook systemd[1]: rc-local.service: control process exited, code=exit...=32
Feb 25 06:10:03 acer-netbook systemd[1]: Failed to start /etc/rc.local Compatibility.
Feb 25 06:10:03 acer-netbook systemd[1]: Unit rc-local.service entered failed state.
acer-netbook wyrdoak # systemctl enable rc-local.service
The unit files have no [Install] section. They are not meant to be enabled
using systemctl.
Possible reasons for having this kind of units are:
1) A unit may be statically enabled by being symlinked from another unit's
   .wants/ or .requires/ directory.
2) A unit's purpose may be to act as a helper for some other unit which has
   a requirement dependency on it.
3) A unit may be started when needed via activation (socket, path, timer,
   D-Bus, udev, scripted systemctl call, ...).