Plymouth should be disabled by default

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gidyn
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Re: Plymouth should be disabled by default

Postby gidyn » 02 Mar 2015 14:03

Should this topic be moved to the Suggestions & Ideas forum?

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Arjen Balfoort
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Re: Plymouth should be disabled by default

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 02 Mar 2015 15:00

gidyn wrote:Should this topic be moved to the Suggestions & Ideas forum?
Very good point and done.


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Fargo
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Re: Plymouth should be disabled by default

Postby Fargo » 02 Mar 2015 20:04

I love beautiful graphics and like Plymouth when it works. The problem is that it does not always work. If put a live cd in my computer and it doesn't boot the distro is not longer considered as an option. Its as simple as that. Even though I know there are ways around most issues in Linux, I don't want to take the time to find them when looking for a distro. If it doesn't work on first attempt its not an option. With that said, I am in favor or disabling Plymouth by default. It causes too many issues on too many machines. And it has for far to long. Plymouth has been a problem for years. I don't believe it will ever be fixed.

So my question is, what are the other options? Before Plymouth came along there were options that would simply display the company logo on the screen while the text scrolls by. Are there any other options available? Can we just have a splash screen asking the user to "Wait while the system loads'. I don't see a need for active graphics or anything if their is a simpler option.

As stated most people don't want to see text scrolling by. Can we just cover the text with a splash screen and allow for a 'verbose' mode if they want to see the text? There must be some other option besides Plymouth.

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patzy
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Re: Plymouth should be disabled by default

Postby patzy » 03 Mar 2015 01:34

I've had a number of issues with Plymouth. Sometimes it will work OK and then I do a reinatallation and it doesn't.

@Raven. I hate having it as a default in 32bit.... :cry:

Surely there is something more trustworthy that can be used a eyecandy for those who would take fright at stuff scrolling down the screen.
And if there is something, can we please have it?

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Zill
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Re: Plymouth should be disabled by default

Postby Zill » 03 Mar 2015 10:39

patzy wrote:...Surely there is something more trustworthy that can be used a eyecandy for those who would take fright at stuff scrolling down the screen.
How about a piece of cardboard? ;-)

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Re: Plymouth should be disabled by default

Postby Deleted User 2764 » 11 Mar 2015 00:27

Sorry this is late. Been busy.

I don't have much control on what goes into the 32-bit SolydK right now. I've been leaving that up to Grizzler and Schoelje since I've been really swamped with work. I do agree that one should either have a choice or not have it installed by default. But I don't know what it would take to fix that. These guys have a lot going on right now (and more to do as Jessie nears stable). Hopefully sometime in the future we can find time to do some tweaks and we'll see what the community decides ultimately on this issue.

So please folks, keep posting in this thread your views on whether or not Plymouth should be installed by default or not. The more feedback we get, the better.

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Zero Angel
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Re: Plymouth should be disabled by default

Postby Zero Angel » 11 Mar 2015 00:51

I don't think it would be a terrible idea to have grub generate a boot option that excludes quiet and splash. Doesn't have to be the default, and in fact people who have problems can generate those as defaults rather easily, provided they can boot the system in the first place to read the forums and instructions.

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Re: Plymouth should be disabled by default

Postby Deleted User 2764 » 11 Mar 2015 01:09

All types of people will use SolydXK, including those who may balk at using the terminal (gasp! :shock: :o ) So I think that is why things are kept as simple as possible so to appeal to the masses. Businesses especially may not have time to go tweaking too much and need something that "just works".

That said, I think that having information scrolling on the screen can be useful. People could get used to it after awhile and adjust to it. I learned early on to pretty much ignore it unless I see something go past in red.

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Nuke
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Re: Plymouth should be disabled by default

Postby Nuke » 12 Mar 2015 14:41

Disable Plymouth

1) The fewer things to go wrong during installation or boot, the better.

2) I like to see text scrolling past during boot, even if I can't read it, because it shows things are happening. Especially if the text is in calm colours like green or white. It is beyond me what people would find scary about it - don't they ever flick through a book or magazine? The number of people actually scared must be negligable[ more likely they consider it a style thing.

3) The worst thing on any computer screen is inactivity. The second worse thing is fake spinners that do not necessarily mean that the app is not frozen or in a loop. The third worse thing is progress bars, usually fake also, and which usually rush up to 99% and then freeze there for minutes.

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Zill
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Re: Plymouth should be disabled by default

Postby Zill » 12 Mar 2015 15:27

Nuke wrote:... The worst thing on any computer screen is inactivity. The second worse thing is fake spinners that do not necessarily mean that the app is not frozen or in a loop. The third worse thing is progress bars, usually fake also, and which usually rush up to 99% and then freeze there for minutes.
+1

I really cannot see the point of this kind of misleading eye-candy that does nothing other than try to fool the user into a (possibly incorrect) belief that "something is happening"!

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fleabus
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Re: Plymouth should be disabled by default

Postby fleabus » 12 Mar 2015 15:41

I'm afraid I have to throw in with Nuke and Zill as far as my personal feelings go. However this doesn't really worry me as I never have much trouble getting rid of stuff I don't want, no matter the defaults.

<ahem> Well. Almost never. Strong word, that... :mrgreen: 8-)

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CjTX2
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Re: Plymouth should be disabled by default

Postby CjTX2 » 19 Apr 2015 04:32

If there are people so afraid of scrolling text that they won't wait to see what happens when it stops, then what do you think they will do when it will not even boot and they get a blank screen with nothing? As for knowing they have a system that won't play well with something called Plymouth, to know how stop something called grub and type in something in what looks like a terminal? Really? If they can not even get into the live disc to try it out? Seriously? How "scared" will they be then?

Plymouth is eye candy. It only lasts a matter of seconds. It should not be allowed to stop the system from booting by default. At the very least one should have the option of leaving it off or turning it on with a warning that depending upon ones particular equipment the Plymouth Splash Screen protecting them from seeing scrolling text could cause the computer not to boot into the operating system.

OK. I admit it's a little over the top, but it is a known issue with Plymouth since its inception. Nothing this flakey should be allowed to block the boot. Please, I agree with Fargo:
Fargo wrote:I love beautiful graphics and like Plymouth when it works. The problem is that it does not always work. If put a live cd in my computer and it doesn't boot the distro is not longer considered as an option. Its as simple as that. Even though I know there are ways around most issues in Linux, I don't want to take the time to find them when looking for a distro. If it doesn't work on first attempt its not an option. With that said, I am in favor or disabling Plymouth by default. It causes too many issues on too many machines. And it has for far to long. Plymouth has been a problem for years. I don't believe it will ever be fixed.

So my question is, what are the other options? Before Plymouth came along there were options that would simply display the company logo on the screen while the text scrolls by. Are there any other options available? Can we just have a splash screen asking the user to "Wait while the system loads'. I don't see a need for active graphics or anything if their is a simpler option.

As stated most people don't want to see text scrolling by. Can we just cover the text with a splash screen and allow for a 'verbose' mode if they want to see the text? There must be some other option besides Plymouth.

Building new machine named Garfield II & still using an old T42 Thinkpad that's old and slow, but just keeps on going and going . . . sorta like me! :lol:

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ilu
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Re: Plymouth should be disabled by default

Postby ilu » 21 Apr 2015 00:53

+1 for turning it off by default.

When I first installed I had no idea what Plymouth is (like every other Linux newbe). Having to google stuff during install (on a second comp which not everybody has) is ok as long as it is vital stuff. Eye candy is not vital.
Nuke wrote:... The worst thing on any computer screen is inactivity. The second worse thing is fake spinners that do not necessarily mean that the app is not frozen or in a loop. The third worse thing is progress bars, usually fake also, and which usually rush up to 99% and then freeze there for minutes.
If you really think users might be scared off by a wall of friendly text, print a message like: "Don't be scared, Linux likes very long boot messages!" If you insist on making it optional explain what it does and that it might cause trouble so the user can make an informed decision.


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