Greetings Fellow Solydxians

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Brock
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Joined: 24 Jan 2015 05:14

Greetings Fellow Solydxians

Postby Brock » 25 Jan 2015 01:51

Hi everybody. I go by "Brock". Microsoft finally alienated me to the point of jumping ship by two nearly simultaneous bone-head moves: Dropping support of Windows XT, and introducing Windows 8, not to mention the future threat of not supporting Win 7. I am a man of many machines, so I am still using Win 7 and Win 8, but I decided it was high-time that I investigate other possibilities. That led me to Linux.

Last July I made the jump and experimented with a number of distros. Here's a few: Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Mint Cinnamon, Mint Cinnamon DE, Zorin, Zorin Lite, PCLinuxOS, Open SUSE, Bodhi, Porteus, and Solydx. I tried all of them, and fully installed at least half of them. They all had something to like, and unfortunately, they all had something to hate. As of now, I also have two other machines running Xubuntu, which I have found to be a very satisfactory OS. But I yearned for something a little more interesting, and when my last XT system went sideways, I decided to "experiment" further. I again tried Bodhi, PCLinuxOS and OpenSUSE, but they were all buggy. When I got to Solydx, it simply ran, and came equipped with a full complement of software. On top of that it looked nice, and it wasn't too demanding of my system resources. I was particularly appreciative of the fact that Solydx picked up my wireless adapter and caused it to work, with no problems. So, perhaps (I'm still evaluating) Solydx will become my new best friend.

Before I end, I would like to voice a short rant about Linux. I'm probably not telling anyone anything new, but Linux is NOT user friendly. I am resolved now to the fact that inspite of the GUI, Linux is heavily dependent on the Command Line. That's OK. Back in the day, I was a Black Belt in DOS. But the difference is that DOS to a great extent was intuitive. DSKCHK meant "Disk Check"; DEL meant "Delete", etc. Not so with Linux. I have never seen, or conceived of anything that is so counter-intuitive as are Linux terminal commands. It will be a steep learning curve indeed, but in the end, (I hope) it will be worth it.

Nice talking to you all. Feel free to say "Hi" back.

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Arjen Balfoort
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Re: Greetings Fellow Solydxians

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 25 Jan 2015 09:52

Hi Brock, and welcome to our forum!

I once was a MS developer and later business consultant for many years and although MS made some good things (I still think their Visual Studio is incredibly good) but when I learned how their business model got in the way of the way some businesses would like to work (business model incompatibility) I searched for alternatives and thus ended up here.

As for Linux not being user friendly, I understand that point of view, but I would like to re-phrase that to "not MS user friendly". Unfortunately, only the young, our children, can be educated from the very beginning that freedom of choice comes with interest, effort and learning the value of a community. It took me quite some time and effort to make that mental switch.

I hope you're going to like your stay here and don't hesitate to post a question if you need help.


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Zill
Posts: 1850
Joined: 13 Aug 2013 14:28
Location: Lincolnshire, UK

Re: Greetings Fellow Solydxians

Postby Zill » 25 Jan 2015 13:10

Brock wrote:...Before I end, I would like to voice a short rant about Linux. I'm probably not telling anyone anything new, but Linux is NOT user friendly. I am resolved now to the fact that inspite of the GUI, Linux is heavily dependent on the Command Line. That's OK. Back in the day, I was a Black Belt in DOS. But the difference is that DOS to a great extent was intuitive. DSKCHK meant "Disk Check"; DEL meant "Delete", etc. Not so with Linux. I have never seen, or conceived of anything that is so counter-intuitive as are Linux terminal commands. It will be a steep learning curve indeed, but in the end, (I hope) it will be worth it...
Good to see you here Brock, despite the rant! ;-)

As an "old-timer" here who has used nothing but Linux for nearly ten years, I find Windows totally alien and definitely not "user friendly" to me! All things are relative and, once you realise that you should try to forget the bad habits you learned with Windows, you will find the Linux way of doing things simply a breath of fresh air. Many things that require loads of mouse movement and clicks with Windows can be simplified to a single command with Linux - which is far quicker and more efficient in my book. :-)

Although an old document now you may find this still very relevant and helpful: Linux is Not Windows

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just
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Joined: 07 Nov 2013 08:06
Location: Rovaniemi, Finland

Re: Greetings Fellow Solydxians

Postby just » 25 Jan 2015 13:33

Zill wrote:
...I find Windows totally alien and definitely not "user friendly"...
i've made the same experience. linux user since 2007, use nothing but linux since 2010, now i can't do any simple move in windows. where to click, what should i do to open a file manager, what are all those alien plates/icons on the screen, strange explanations that explain nothing? how can i simply get out from that strange thing?!

while in linux everything is clear, simple, fast. i'm at home here.

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Nuke
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Re: Greetings Fellow Solydxians

Postby Nuke » 25 Jan 2015 17:39

Brock wrote: the difference is that DOS to a great extent was intuitive. DSKCHK meant "Disk Check"; DEL meant "Delete", etc. Not so with Linux.
It's not that bad. In Linux the file system check is "fsck" , and "rm" (remove) is delete's equivalent.

But it has to be admitted that there are lots of PITAs in Linux. In principle I don't mind using the command line, but some of the commands are almost perversly illogical. It seems that in the early days there was a cult (or a strange sense of humour) for terseness that cause all those two-letter acronyms (rm, df, su, du, tr, mt). They say it was because pressing keys was hard work in the Teletype days of the 1970's. These days, with TAB completion, it doesn't matter anyway (try "cdp[TAB]"). There are also some out-of-date limitations; I believe that "umount" is used instead of "unmount" because some early systems could not cope with commands longer than six letters.

Then there is inconsistency. Uniquely (AFAIK) among commands, "tar" does not require a dash before its options, but does require "f" at the end of any option list (it means "file", but what else could we mean? Everything is Unix is a file!). There is also unnecessary duplication of commands (useradd & adduser ; diff & comp ; cat & more & less & nl ; fdisk & cfdisk & sfdisk).

Once we have remembered some commands, there can be dozens of options to follow them. Ever seen the manual pages for the "less" or "tar" commands? They are insane. (Try "man less" - the options go almost through the whole alphabet in both upper and lower case) It seems the authors or maintainers of some of these commands got obsessed with adding options for the sake of it, the vast majority of which no-one ever uses; some are like mini-operating systems. Nor are the options standardised : "-c" can mean "count" in one command but "concise output" in another. In practice, I'm sure most people only ever use a small sub-set of the available commands, and an even smaller subset of their options; that is what I do anyway.

However, the fault in Linux is over-kill. With Windows it is under-provision. When I use Windows (occasionally) I feel as if my hands have been cut off. The command line interface is terrible, and the GUI never seems to offer the option I am looking for. It is like a car with its bonnet welded shut - fine as long as things keep working, and as long as you don't want to do something either the designers did not think of, or think that you should not be doing.

I am a bit hesitant to suggest it here, but for an interesting read try "The Unix Hater's Handbook". Most of its criticisms are completely out of date (it is really a Unix versus VMS rant, in a world largely before GUIs; DOS/Windows are hardly mentioned and Linux not at all). However it was written by someone close to the origins of Unix who seemed to know some the main players personally, and it gives a historical insight of how some things became the way they are.

http://www.monoskop.org/File:The_UNIX-H ... ndbook.pdf

I love this footnote in the chapter on X-Windows :-
We have tried to avoid paragraph-length footnotes in this book, but X has defeated us by switching the meaning of client and server. In all other client/server relationships, the server is the remote machine that runs the application (i.e., the server provides services, such as database service or computational service). For some perverse reason that's better left to the imagination, X insists on calling the program running on the remote machine "the client." This program displays its windows on the "window server." ...... So when you see "client" think "the remote machine where the application is running," and when you see "Server" think "the local machine that displays output and accepts user input."
It has an "Anti-Foreword" by Dennis Ritchie, no less. Don't take it too seriously though ;)

Brock
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Joined: 24 Jan 2015 05:14

Re: Greetings Fellow Solydxians

Postby Brock » 26 Jan 2015 05:42

NUKE: Thanks for your reply. It is gratifying to have someone "who knows" validate my rant about Linux. Having thus cleared the air, I'll just have to pull up my knickers and get on with it. I'm not really a power-user anyway, so after I get my machine set up so that everything works, I hope never to have to go near a command line again. I know that may sound like blasphemy because Linux people love the command line, and the esoteric world it engenders, but there are literally millions, if not billions, of people out there who don't care about those things, and just want to do everyday stuff like surf the internet, watch a video, write and print a letter, track their finances, or play solitaire, without having to learn a new language which rivals Mandarin Chinese in complexity. Fortunately, my eight-month search through the Linux forest has led me to Solydxk, which, to my surprise, seems relatively complete, and (almost) completely functional right out of the box, for which I am glad..... I just have a few bugs to work out first. Thanks again for your post.

Rocky
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Joined: 15 Apr 2014 11:04
Location: Ireland

Re: Greetings Fellow Solydxians

Postby Rocky » 26 Jan 2015 10:02

Yes good post Nuke. Another (perhaps more balanced ? ) link on the origins of Unix http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/index.html. See first few chapters.

There were also some interesting discussions on this forum in the last twelve months about terminal (CLI) v GUI - if you search wildman's early posts you will find some of them

Almost forgot - weLcome to the forums Brock - you will find a very friendly and open atmosphere here.
"All that glisters is not gold" - Shakespeare "The Merchant of Venice"


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