A question concerning testing

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MAYBL8
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A question concerning testing

Postby MAYBL8 » 02 Feb 2014 14:35

Not sure how to phrase this question so here goes:
It seems most of our testing updates are related to debian not Solydxk updates.
I know that when we get a new update pack it is filled with updates from Debian itself.
Is there a way to test these ourselves so we know what is ahead before it all hits production.
I think this is what I mean as Debian releases a package for testing can't we get it also at the same time so we can test it.
It seems a lot of people that are having problems with Solydxk are having problems with Debian Packages not necessarily Solydxk packages (DDM etc).
I don't know if I am making any sense. Hopefully you can understand my question.
Thanks
Dan


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GeneC
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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby GeneC » 02 Feb 2014 15:52

Not sure exactly what you mean... :P

How about SolydXK tracking a straight Debian Testing? Its what I run. I am not a fan of UP's. Daily updates with small downloads better suits me.

Code: Select all

gene@solydx:~$ inxi -r
Repos:     Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list
           deb http://packages.solydxk.com/testing/ solydxk main upstream import #"SolX"
           deb http://community.solydxk.com/testing/ solydxk main #"SolX -Comm."
           deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free #"Debian-Jessie"
           deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org testing main non-free #"DebTest Multimedia"
           deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free #"DebTest Security"
           
           
As SolydXK repos are a 'snapshot' of these same repos at a determined time. The Debian Testing packages become the SolydXK packages at the time of the snapshot.
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MAYBL8
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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby MAYBL8 » 02 Feb 2014 16:03

GeneC wrote:Not sure exactly what you mean... :P

How about SolydXK tracking a straight Debian Testing? Its what I run. I am not a fan of UP's. Daily updates with small downloads better suits me.
The Daily updates I think is what I was referring to.

If the Solydxk testing users are to be testing for production then when Debian releases a package to testing wouldn't that be the time we should get it at Solydxk for testing purposes also.

Maybe I don't understand How Debian Testing works in the first place.
I guess i should first go look there to understand that.
I can't believe they would release 450 updates all at once for people to test.
Or are we saying over here that if it passed Debian testing then it should work for Solydxk and we don't need to test it.
Does that make any sense?


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GeneC
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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby GeneC » 02 Feb 2014 16:15

No, Debian Testing is a bit volatile. Its "Testing"... :lol: There may be breakages. (But its been stable for many months).

INFO from Debian Wiki = https://wiki.debian.org/DebianTesting
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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby zerozero » 02 Feb 2014 16:34

MAYBL8 wrote:Is there a way to test these ourselves so we know what is ahead before it all hits production.
yes, that's what solydxk testing is for;
we test the UP for 15 days before it goes (or not) to production and find the issues so that they can (if possible) be addressed.

if you want to have an earlier preview of the next UP (kind of) you can set your sources.list directly to debian testing (as Gene shown above);
with that approach you are not simulating the next UP though because
  • you might upgrade from version a to version a+1 in testing and hit a bug and by the time we issue the UP with version a+2 the issue is already solved
  • we might have different issues upgrading from b to b+2 directly in the UP that you didn't find going from b > b+1 > b+2
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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby MAYBL8 » 02 Feb 2014 16:58

OK guys I think I understand all that and thanks.
So what you are saying then is we have 15 days to test possible over 300 updates coming from Debian Testing before we go into production.

Wow, in these months that Solydxk has been in existence that is a lot of updates.
So here is what I see.
Due to this fact obviously some testing is going on into production release.
Nobody can test everything.
But we are saying that we are more Solyd than the rest of the Debian releases?
You know what I mean.
We can end this thread. I could probably go on forever.
Last thing.
Do you think our testing method is good enough or is there some room for improvement to make this Solydxk even more Solyd?


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zerozero
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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby zerozero » 02 Feb 2014 17:04

MAYBL8 wrote:Do you think our testing method is good enough or is there some room for improvement to make this Solydxk even more Solyd?
surely there's room for improvement (the day we consider we nailed it we better close the doors)
- more and better feedback (requires also better organization from our -team - part)
- more and more diverse hardware
bliss of ignorance

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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby MAYBL8 » 02 Feb 2014 17:17

surely there's room for improvement (the day we consider we nailed it we better close the doors)
- more and better feedback (requires also better organization from our -team - part)
- more and more diverse hardware
This sounds great.
How do we do this?
There are probably a million ideas.
How does Linux Mint do their testing?

On to SuperBowl Sunday.


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GeneC
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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby GeneC » 02 Feb 2014 18:07

MAYBL8 wrote:OK guys I think I understand all that and thanks.
So what you are saying then is we have 15 days to test possible over 300 updates coming from Debian Testing before we go into production.
.........
Yes, That is why I think its important for some (who like to be experimental) to track either Debian Testing or Debian SID (or both- indifferent partitions), and post issues on these threads.

Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing-LINK

Breakages and News tracking Debian SID-LINK

As 'zz' said it will help head off potential problems well before they show up in SolydXK Testing and less issues all at one time.
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kbd
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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby kbd » 02 Feb 2014 18:42

Thanks for this info guys, it helps me better understand what you are doing. It seems to me you really need a lot of testers for these update packs to cover as much hardware and potential problems as possible. I've got an extra laptop to repair and once It's up and running I want to help with testing. I thought maybe just tracking testing all the time would help, glad you made it clear that isn't going to give you the same outcome.
Thanks again.

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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby ScottQuier » 02 Feb 2014 19:10

zerozero wrote:
MAYBL8 wrote:Do you think our testing method is good enough or is there some room for improvement to make this Solydxk even more Solyd?
surely there's room for improvement (the day we consider we nailed it we better close the doors)
- more and better feedback (requires also better organization from our -team - part)
- more and more diverse hardware
In addition to these ideas, there's also room for a more formal testing methodology. I'm not talking test scripts - we would never get one UP out the door before the next one was due. But, if testers had an idea of where to look for potential weaknesses in the UP, those areas would get more attention.

As it stands right now, a large share of the "testing" is not much more than, "Yep, I got the UP, got it to install, and there were no errors encountered. Done." With enough people and different hardware, this could be a decent empirical test of the update process. And, maybe, that's really 80+% of what needs to be tested. I don't know, I'm still so new to this game.
Scott
Quoting zerozero, "The usage of PPA's in debian-based
systems is risky at best and entails serious compatibility
problems; usually it's the best way to destroy an install"

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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby zerozero » 02 Feb 2014 19:45

ScottQuier wrote:there's also room for a more formal testing methodology
ScottQuier wrote:As it stands right now, a large share of the "testing" is not much more than, "Yep, I got the UP, got it to install, and there were no errors encountered. Done."
that's good feedback always but you're right in the first quote 8-) and that was what i was trying to say with
zerozero wrote:- more and better feedback (requires also better organization from our -team - part)

in the beginning we had a formal sheet for both the iso and UP testing (it was not perfect and needed heavy adaptation); with time it was dropped but we need to bring it back (refreshed)
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kurotsugi
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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby kurotsugi » 02 Feb 2014 19:46

Nobody can test everything.
But we are saying that we are more Solyd than the rest of the Debian releases?
what we mean by 'solyd' is more like a comparation for a rolling release (or a semi rolling release) distro, not a comparison between all debian release. it might true that we have better stability compared to debian unstable but it's very hard to beat debian stable solydness :lol:
This sounds great.
How do we do this?
There are probably a million ideas.
How does Linux Mint do their testing?
we have several source of feedback
1. siduction forum
2. solydxk following unstable
3. solydxk following testing
4. debian bug tracker
5. solydxk UP testing
the most important source would be solydXK UP testing. this step ensure that there would be no problem with the latest UP. aside from these source sometimes we also share information with LMDE forum.

RcyberN
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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby RcyberN » 11 Feb 2014 14:46

GeneC wrote:Not sure exactly what you mean... :P

How about SolydXK tracking a straight Debian Testing? Its what I run. I am not a fan of UP's. Daily updates with small downloads better suits me.

Code: Select all

gene@solydx:~$ inxi -r
Repos:     Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list
           deb http://packages.solydxk.com/testing/ solydxk main upstream import #"SolX"
           deb http://community.solydxk.com/testing/ solydxk main #"SolX -Comm."
           deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free #"Debian-Jessie"
           deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org testing main non-free #"DebTest Multimedia"
           deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib non-free #"DebTest Security"
           
           
As SolydXK repos are a 'snapshot' of these same repos at a determined time. The Debian Testing packages become the SolydXK packages at the time of the snapshot.
Hi Gene. I found your above idea/suggestion interesting and applied it to one of my machines. The upgrade was relatively painless. I had an issue with grub installation at the end that boogered up my boot menu a bit. Other than that, everything is running well. Thanks for the idea. :)

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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby GeneC » 11 Feb 2014 17:56

Hi R...N.. :)

Grub can get messy with multiple distros. (I have 4 at present).. ;)

I use Grub Customizer to keep things tidy and nice looking.
http://www.webupd8.org/2012/09/grub-cus ... eased.html
[rimg]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-E6iLN8Q7FoM/U ... omizer.png[/rimg]
Its now in our repos.

(PS. I have found that if you want to use custom images, you have to remove solydx(k)-grub2-theme).
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RcyberN
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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby RcyberN » 11 Feb 2014 18:25

Thanks for the info Gene :)

I'll take a look at that once I get an understanding of what happened. I don't have multiple distros, but I do have multiple kernels I can choose at boot. At the end of the update, I got a grub prompt wanting me to chose partition for grub..however, I couldn't choose a selection, I tried hitting enter, pressing x, etc..The message also said if I already had grub there, it may be ok just to choose "no"..So I did. (I've learned since then that maybe pressing spacebar marks the selection?)

So now, I have a boot menu and a sub-menu. The first menu has two available options: to boot with kernel 3.12 or choose "advanced options". Advanced options takes me to another boot menu showing all kernels I can choose from (3.10.3, 3.11.x, 3.12.x). When I chose a kernel to boot I see 3 "files not found messages". The messages are not cascading during the boot process. They are static on the splash screen. My investigation so far leads me to believe the missing files are cosmetic related to the Solydxk splash graphics, but I can't confirm yet. I also tried update-grub command but that didn't solve it.

Besides that everything seems to be working. The only question I can't find an answer for yet is if Update Manager will show me updates/upgrades or if I manually have to do apt-get update and upgrade commands to see new updates. Debian documentation suggests the need to do them manually. However, I'm not clear if the documentation assumes an update manager is not being utilized in the distro. Thoughts?

kbd
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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby kbd » 11 Feb 2014 18:46

Thanks for that info Gene!
May need it. I've got a machine multi-booting 6 distros. I tried SolydK on it it but it would not boot up. No problem with the other distros. Had the issue before with SolydX not booting when installed alongside others.

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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby jsalpha2 » 11 Feb 2014 19:45

(PS. I have found that if you want to use custom images, you have to remove solydx(k)-grub2-theme).
Thanks GeneC That was driving me nuts!

Edit Spoke to soon. Still getting the grey Solydxk theme, even though its gone. Is it in more than one location?

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GeneC
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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby GeneC » 11 Feb 2014 21:23

RcyberN wrote:Thanks for the info Gene :)
[,,,]
The only question I can't find an answer for yet is if Update Manager will show me updates/upgrades or if I manually have to do apt-get update and upgrade commands to see new updates. Debian documentation suggests the need to do them manually. However, I'm not clear if the documentation assumes an update manager is not being utilized in the distro. Thoughts?
I dont use UM with Testing or SID. I use synaptic. You just get so many daily updates (0-25) that I got in the habit of updating dialy with Synaptic (or CLI if your inclined)..
But, Yes I beleive that UM does work properly with Debian Testing... ;)

===================================
Post by jsalpha2 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:45 pm

(PS. I have found that if you want to use custom images, you have to remove solydx(k)-grub2-theme).


Thanks GeneC That was driving me nuts!

Edit Spoke to soon. Still getting the grey Solydxk theme, even though its gone. Is it in more than one location?
Did you remove it from Synaptic or CLI? That is the best approach. May take a full reboot to function.
You may have to try a couple of images before it works, for whatever reason not all images work for me (most .jpg, .png's work)

Code: Select all

root@siduction:/home/gene# apt-cache policy solydx-grub2-theme
solydx-grub2-theme:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 1.0.2
  Version table:
     1.0.2 0
        500 http://packages.solydxk.com/production/ solydxk/main amd64 Packages
its solydk-grub2-theme for kde
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Re: A question concerning testing

Postby zerozero » 11 Feb 2014 22:02

RcyberN wrote:Besides that everything seems to be working. The only question I can't find an answer for yet is if Update Manager will show me updates/upgrades or if I manually have to do apt-get update and upgrade commands to see new updates. Debian documentation suggests the need to do them manually. However, I'm not clear if the documentation assumes an update manager is not being utilized in the distro. Thoughts?

i hope that was a typo and you really meant

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
or you prefer the short version (also works in SolydXK)

Code: Select all

apt update && apt dist-upgrade
as for the main question: yes, UM works perfectly if you set your sources.list to testing (or even to sid); you might want to use the terminal tho (but that's a question of preference not need) because you have greater control over the dist-upgrade
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