SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

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Arjen Balfoort
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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 24 Feb 2017 19:37

solydk-system-adjustments and solydk-info are obsolete from these version onward. They are replaced by solydk-system-adjustments-8 (jessie) or solydk-system-adjustments-9 (stretch). These packages are still in testing and if you want to update these systems you need to add testing to the solydxk repository line in your sources.list file. These versions are mostly to check out the systems but not to upgrade them. There is simply too much developement on them right now. I hope I have some time this weekend to upload the packages to the main repository. Until that time I want to concentrate on the known (see the OP) issues and solve that.


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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 26 Feb 2017 11:22

I see that SolydK has its own update widget and that our own Update Manager does not show in the system tray. Perhaps we don't need the Update Manager anymore?

OP updated.

[EDIT]
I propose to remove solydxk-softwaremanager and updatemanager and use apper instead on SolydK.

[EDIT 2]
I tried pk-update-icon/gnome-packagekit and gnome-software to do the same for SolydX but I'm not having any luck to show an update icon in the system tray (pk-update-icon) and gnome software shows an empty "All" tab.

[EDIT 3]
Just for fun I installed Apper in SolydX with --no-install-recommends. It needed 128MB extra disk space but functioned as expected.
The empty "All" tab in gnome-software was solved by a reboot.


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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby ilu » 26 Feb 2017 13:45

I'm glad the gnome stuff did not work. Or did it? I remember we had a look at that and the questionable gnome team ideas about what software should do half a year back. I wouldn't want to have it on my systems.

And apper pulls in the whole akonadi stuff. This is a no-go for me.
I have recommends set to off by default, Did you get akonadi as well?

Please don't abandon UM without an independent replacement.

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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 26 Feb 2017 14:08

ilu wrote:I'm glad the gnome stuff did not work. Or did it? I remember we had a look at that and the questionable gnome team ideas about what software should do half a year back. I wouldn't want to have it on my systems.
It seems to work now but I don't like the way it works. Heavily emphasized on Gnome.
ilu wrote:And apper pulls in the whole akonadi stuff. This is a no-go for me.
I have recommends set to off by default, Did you get akonadi as well?
No it didn't. No akonadi on my testing system.
ilu wrote:Please don't abandon UM without an independent replacement.
I wish I could. It's difficult to maintain and I never get it right. I've always had many issues with it. However, I will only replace it it there's a good alternative. Apper is good enough for SolydK, in my opinion, and perhaps even good enough for SolydX. Who knows.


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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Zill » 26 Feb 2017 16:19

Schoelje wrote:I see that SolydK has its own update widget and that our own Update Manager does not show in the system tray. Perhaps we don't need the Update Manager anymore?
...
[EDIT 3]
Just for fun I installed Apper in SolydX with --no-install-recommends. It needed 128MB extra disk space but functioned as expected.
WOW! 128MB extra disk space. :shock:

With the SolydXK update manager currently needing just 739kB, we really don't want this kind of KDE bloat on SolydX.

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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 26 Feb 2017 17:40

Zill wrote:With the SolydXK update manager currently needing just 739kB, we really don't want this kind of KDE bloat on SolydX.
Hence the "just for fun".


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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Zill » 26 Feb 2017 17:51

Schoelje wrote:
Zill wrote:With the SolydXK update manager currently needing just 739kB, we really don't want this kind of KDE bloat on SolydX.
Hence the "just for fun".
That's the kind of "fun" that will give me a heart attack! :lol:

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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 28 Feb 2017 19:05

I found out that not only does the Gtk theme changes don't have any effect on the Gtk+/Glide applications, neither does changing the icon theme have any effect on them. They fall back to the Gnome theme whatever you select.

In my hunt to tackle the icon issue I've simplified the packaging for the Evolvere icon themes. I've simplified inheritance of other themes to only the evolvere-additional theme which is a small sub-set I created to add some missing icons. Currently, the themes with different colored folders only contained the folder related icons and the rest was inherited from another theme which it depended upon. The new packages hold the entire theme and does not depend on other packages. These new packages will only be uploaded to the solydxk-9 repository as soon as I'm done testing.


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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 01 Mar 2017 08:46

I've created a development environment on SolydK alpha to find out why my Gtk+/Glade applications are behaving so badly. So, I've created a simple Gtk+/Glade application to see if that works...and it changed themes perfectly:
glade-test.png
Now I need to check the difference between this and the old glade files...


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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 01 Mar 2017 09:44

Well, do I feel stupid!

It seems that the theme issue only happened with our own tools. These tools all need root permissions...can you guess it?

After I changed to the SolydK Dark theme I copied my Gtk settings to the /root directory:

Code: Select all

sudo cp -v .gtkrc-2.0 /root/
sudo cp -v .config/gtk-3.0/settings.ini /root/.config/gtk-3.0/
Which results in:
solydk-dark.png
It's a workaround, of course. It should be handled by kdesudo but it doesn't.


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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 01 Mar 2017 19:55

I've uploaded updated (see the OP for the fixes/workarounds) ISOs: http://downloads.solydxk.nl/dev/stretch/


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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby bas_otten » 01 Mar 2017 21:52

Schoelje wrote: It's a workaround, of course. It should be handled by kdesudo but it doesn't.
I was just wondering: should this be considered a workaround? I believe kdesudo/gksudo are making sure that configuration settings for an application run as root are read from and written to *root*'s homedir and not the occasional/unlucky user's homedir, which could result in all sorts of files in the user's homedir owned by root. I just logged in as root into KDE on stable SolydK, changed the background-color of Konsole, then logged back in as myself and ran 'Konsole as root': root's altered background-color in effect. But when I much enlarge the window-border-thickness as root in KDE, then this theme-type change is not reflected when I run 'Konsole as root' in my personal KDE environment. So not sure, just thinking... what is the way this is designed to work?

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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 02 Mar 2017 07:23

I think you might be right. I tried it on a 32-bit install and it had the same behavior. I just don't understand the reasoning behind it. It only concerns applications that need to run with root privileges AND are Gtk applications. The Qt applications behave as expected and under Xfce the same Gtk applications also behave the same whether they run as root or not. It's like mum and dad are divorced and the kids can have everything when they are with dad but when they're with mum they can get anything as long as it has nothing to do with dad.

This means that I cannot report this as a bug. It would be a feature request and I know what happens with feature requests: a very low priority. So, we need to find a way to copy the user's environment variables used by Gtk applications to the root's environment variables when the user's environment is started. I don't know if that is possible, though.


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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 02 Mar 2017 08:23

I found that if I start a kdesudo application with HOME=$HOME before the command the application behaves as expected.

I tried this with Lightdm Manager:

Code: Select all

kdesudo -c "HOME=$HOME python3 /usr/lib/lightdm-manager/lightdm-manager.py"
I don't know if I can change that environment variable for su as soon as the user logs in. I can always try to change the way these applications start. At least our own applications.


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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 02 Mar 2017 09:29

Unfortunately, adding "Defaults env_keep += "HOME"" to the sudoers file didn't make a difference.


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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby bas_otten » 02 Mar 2017 21:18

Schoelje wrote: I found that if I start a kdesudo application with HOME=$HOME before the command the application behaves as expected.
  • Doing so will revert root's homedir back to the user's homedir and this will definitely end up with root-owned files in your personal homedir, as I could easily prove on my system. This direction is not an option as I see it: it undoes the kde part of kdesudo!
  • I wonder as to the expected behaviour - I would (inversely) expect the behaviour to be: so you wanne be root, you get root plus all its gui+rc settings as far as it can bring them into your current desktop.
I tried to test this, using kcalc (qt) and gedit (gtk). I logged into KDE as root and chose a very dark/black theme/colors. Verified both applications to show up black. Then back to my own KDE session, see the screenshot (SolydK-9, but same on SolydK-8):
kdesudo-themes.png
Left you see the commands, right the resulting windows in same order from top to bottom.

I searched on Startpage.com using "kdesudo theme". Many people 'complaining' but actually confirming this. I am aware there seems to be evidence against this, by your screenshot of SolydX-9. I am less familiar with XFCE - and out of time to dive into that at the moment:-) There must be an explanation, I think, other than "root using theme settings of the regular user without risk of interference".

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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 03 Mar 2017 12:49

I partially agree with you and that's why I'd like to add some nuances.

Everybody knows that system configuration changing applications need root privileges. The person having those permissions knows he has the responsibility and doesn't need to be reminded by a different theme that he's started the application as root now, especially because he just provided the root password to open the application in the first place. The user has chosen for a particular theme (or keeps the default one because he likes it) and expects any application to look as he's configured it. Xfce understands that and perhaps other DEs do that as well but I don't have much experience with those. Under KDE even gksudo does not behave the same as under Xfce. Applications run as root with gksudo do use the root's theme, just as kdesudo does. So, it must be a DE decision.

The HOME=$HOME workaround for applications is just that: a workaround. It limits the environment variables to that particular application. These applications would always save files with root ownership, even without the workaround and that doesn't matter because they need to change system wide configuration, not user information. I've implemented this in our own applications and they still behave the same except that they now use the user's theme. I cannot do this for other applications then my own. Synaptic still keeps the root's theme. Of course, if people find the workaround is doing more damage than good, I'll remove it, but I couldn't find any.

Here's a gksudo vs kdesudo+HOME=$HOME image:
gksudo-vs-home=home.png


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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby grizzler » 03 Mar 2017 14:33

Wouldn't creating symlinks from /root to the relevant settings files be safer? You'd still end up with root owned files in the user's home directory, but at least you'd still be using kdesudo (as Bas mentioned, the HOME=$HOME contruct essentially turns kdesudo into sudo).
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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby balloon » 03 Mar 2017 14:53

I took a video capture with VirtualBox:
SolydX 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84qIFgXU3-k
SolydK 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOa-waqQwgY

I also installed it on real PC. I will test while using it.

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Re: SolydXK 9 (stretch) alpha build testing

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 03 Mar 2017 15:02

grizzler wrote:Wouldn't creating symlinks from /root to the relevant settings files be safer? You'd still end up with root owned files in the user's home directory, but at least you'd still be using kdesudo (as Bas mentioned, the HOME=$HOME contruct essentially turns kdesudo into sudo).
That would be something the user has to do manually (which I'm trying to prevent) and it would change the theme for all users on that system capable of using the root password with a GUI.


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