Usage of Sid/Unstable repos with SolydXK

[zerozero]

me, personally, wouldn't do this in a production machine that is mission-critical unless that odd piece of software that i really need for my workflow is only available in sid.

Sid is unstable for a reason and although most of the time it behaves just fine, when it breaks, breaks big time

on the other hand if you want to play/learn, have a more up-to-date app and can afford the unexpected oops!! this is for you

[to be clear: i'm not saying that using sid app will break your install but it introduces higher risks; it's up to you to evaluate if you want/need to take those risks]

let's start


1- the system must be fully up-to-date, so

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apt update && apt dist-upgrade

has to end with

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0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.

(if it doesn't fix it before start this)


2- let's create a sid.list in sources.list.d and add the relevant repo line

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sudo touch /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sid.list

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sudo echo 'deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free' | sudo tee -a /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sid.list

checking

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zerozero@home /etc/apt/sources.list.d $ ls -lA
total 12
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 191 Nov 27 11:31 google-talkplugin.list
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  64 Jan 31 21:28 sid.list
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root  87 Nov 27 11:31 snapper.list

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zerozero@home /etc/apt/sources.list.d $ cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sid.list
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free

3- create a preferences file
where we are going to tell APT that unstable has lower priority than our standard repos, so that no unwanted updates will filter through from sid

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sudo touch /etc/apt/preferences

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sudo echo 'Package: *' | sudo tee -a /etc/apt/preferences

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sudo echo 'Pin: release a=unstable' | sudo tee -a /etc/apt/preferences

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sudo echo 'Pin-Priority: 50' | sudo tee -a /etc/apt/preferences

checking

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zerozero@home ~ $ cat /etc/apt/preferences 
Package: *   
Pin: release a=unstable 
Pin-Priority: 50   

4- now the real test that this setup works

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apt update && apt dist-upgrade

has to be exactly the same as before we started

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0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. 

[if it's different don't proceed and post back here]


5- what's all this for, in the end of the day, you ask?
let's take one example
Darktable
i'm working now with these repos

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zerozero@home ~ $ inxi -r      
Repos:     Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list    
           deb http://packages.solydxk.com/testing/ solydxk main upstream import kdenext     
           deb http://community.solydxk.com/testing/ solydxk main     
           deb http://debian.solydxk.com/testing/ testing main contrib non-free    
           deb http://debian.solydxk.com/testing/multimedia/ testing main non-free    
           deb http://debian.solydxk.com/security/ testing/updates main contrib non-free   
           deb-src http://packages.solydxk.com/testing/ solydxk main upstream import kdenext  
           deb-src http://community.solydxk.com/testing/ solydxk main    
           deb-src http://debian.solydxk.com/testing/ testing main contrib non-free  
           deb-src http://debian.solydxk.com/testing/multimedia/ testing main non-free  
           deb-src http://debian.solydxk.com/security/ testing/updates main contrib non-free    
           deb http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian/ wheezy contrib  
           Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/google-talkplugin.list  
           deb http://dl.google.com/linux/talkplugin/deb/ stable main
           Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sid.list
           deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free
           Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/snapper.list
           deb http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/filesystems:snapper/Debian_7.0/ /
zerozero@home ~ $ 

darktable is not installed but the apt policy output shows some interesting info

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zerozero@home ~ $ apt policy darktable
darktable:    
  Installed: (none)   
  Candidate: 1.2.3-1  
  Version table:    
     1.4-2+b1 0  
         50 http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages     
     1.2.3-1 0      
        500 http://debian.solydxk.com/testing/ testing/main amd64 Packages 

although the newest version is 1.4-2 (from unstable with 50 points pin-priority) the best version for APT is 1.2.3 (candidate)
this is exactly the behavior we want: have sid packages available but not automatically updated


6- usage (finally )
if a package is only available in sid or a newer version of given app is in sid we can:

with the -t unstable syntax we are telling APT to install given package from unstable and also needed dependencies (if any)
because of that i would use first the -s switch just to have a look&see on the impact of my request and only then (removing it) would go for the real deal)

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sudo apt-get -s -t unstable install <package-name>

taking darktable's example once again

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zerozero@home ~ $ sudo apt-get -s -t unstable install darktable
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
  libevent-2.0-5 libsamplerate0:i386 libspeexdsp1:i386
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
The following extra packages will be installed:
  gtk2-engines libflickcurl0 libgphoto2-6 libgphoto2-l10n libgphoto2-port10 libjs-prototype libjs-scriptaculous
Suggested packages:
  gphoto2 gtkam
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  darktable gtk2-engines libflickcurl0 libgphoto2-6 libgphoto2-port10 libjs-prototype libjs-scriptaculous
The following packages will be upgraded:
  libgphoto2-l10n
1 upgraded, 7 newly installed, 0 to remove and 762 not upgraded.
Inst libflickcurl0 (1.25-1 Debian:unstable [amd64])
Inst libgphoto2-port10 (2.5.2-2 Debian:unstable [amd64])
Inst libgphoto2-6 (2.5.2-2 Debian:unstable [amd64])
Inst gtk2-engines (1:2.20.2-3 Debian:testing [amd64])
Inst libjs-prototype (1.7.1-3 Debian:testing [all])
Inst libjs-scriptaculous (1.9.0-2 Debian:testing [all])
Inst darktable (1.4-2+b1 Debian:unstable [amd64])
Inst libgphoto2-l10n [2.4.14-2.4] (2.5.2-2 Debian:unstable [all])
Conf libflickcurl0 (1.25-1 Debian:unstable [amd64])
Conf libgphoto2-port10 (2.5.2-2 Debian:unstable [amd64])
Conf libgphoto2-6 (2.5.2-2 Debian:unstable [amd64])
Conf gtk2-engines (1:2.20.2-3 Debian:testing [amd64])
Conf libjs-prototype (1.7.1-3 Debian:testing [all])
Conf libjs-scriptaculous (1.9.0-2 Debian:testing [all])
Conf darktable (1.4-2+b1 Debian:unstable [amd64])
Conf libgphoto2-l10n (2.5.2-2 Debian:unstable [all])

in the end of the output we can see that the installation of the new version of DT requires 1 upgrade and 7 newly installed and that 5 of those 8 lib are from unstable

===
Additional notes

1- the apt-pinning proposed above works as-is meaning that if you have other rules in the preferences file (or if you had a preferences file before at all) you should be careful;
specially the rule

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Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian
Pin-Priority: 500

should at all cost be avoided

2- this is an interesting method to update one (a few maximum) needed app; if you realize that you are using this method to update most of the system you should consider run straight sid or give up on this method.

[ScottQuier]

Wow - I don't have to compile my own Darktable any more. You've done all the work for me!

[zerozero]

You've done all the work for me!

it's a pleasure!

[ScottQuier]

it's a pleasure!

Yeah, but I think I'll stick with compiling from source. I don't need to do it often (the project is moving, but not THAT quickly), it's a process I know and one I am pretty certain is not going to bork my system.

[Deleted User 2763]

Thanks for the step by step.
-Hinto

[GeneC]

Very nice..

Going to use this (apt-pinning) method on my SolydX tracking Debian Testing, rather than periodically enabling/disabling "SID" repo as I had been in the past. Thanks.

Just as a side note, I have been running Siduction XFCE (Debian SID) for about 6 months with daily updates with no issues at all (perhaps the rare 'hold back', but that is fixed in must a day or two's wait). Siduction's forum is very good in posting SID upgrade warnings, might be a good idea to check there first, before upgrading or installing from SID to avoid potential errors..

Siduction SID Upgrade warnings!

[Deleted User 2763]

Yep. Those guys really know there stuff. I "known" most of them since the days when Kanotix was based on SID.
-Hinto

[zerozero]

just 2 notes:
[added to the OP]

1- the apt-pinning proposed above works as-is meaning that if you have other rules in the preferences file (or if you had a preferences file before at all) you should be careful;
specially the rule

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Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian
Pin-Priority: 500

should at all cost be avoided

2- this is an interesting method to update one (a few maximum) needed app; if you realize that you are using this method to update most of the system you should consider run straight sid or give up on this method.

[jsalpha2]

So just downloading a file from Sid, like in your example, darktable_1.4-2+b1_amd64.deb and installing with Gdebi is a nono?
Sometimes Gdebi will complain about unmet dependencies, but if there are not to many I have chased them down and installed them the same way.

I have heeded the warnings about not installing Ubuntu PPAs, but sometimes have gotten a single .deb file from here.
http://www.ubuntuupdates.org/package/co ... base/geary
Hangs my head in shame. Don't try this yourself unless you have recent backups and it is on a non production machine.
There are some real Linux gurus here, I am not one of them. Just to curious, like the cat, and you know what happened to the cat.

[zerozero]

So just downloading a file from Sid, like in your example, darktable_1.4-2+b1_amd64.deb and installing with Gdebi is a nono?
Sometimes Gdebi will complain about unmet dependencies, but if there are not to many I have chased them down and installed them the same way.

it's not a nono and works with packages that have none of few dependencies;
the problem is with packages/libraries more complex;
also (and probably the worst problem) it doesn't auto-update; if there's a new version you have to repeat the manual process all over again

the advantages of this method are that
1- it installs "automagically" all the needed dependencies
2- keeps the package/lib always up-to-date

[jsalpha2]

Thanks zerozero, I am going to have to try to figure out your method. Instead of just copy/pasting I'll have to figure out what things mean. Example

sudo touch /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sid.list

, I've never heard of the touch command. I'll study on it. Better to do it correctly than go for a quick fix.

touch its mostly useful to create an empty file. Remember that you can always open gedit as sudo, put that line and save the file.

found on google

[zerozero]

yeahh, i know the joy of understanding

[GeneC]

Thanks zerozero, I am going to have to try to figure out your method. Instead of just copy/pasting I'll have to figure out what things mean. Example

sudo touch /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sid.list

, I've never heard of the touch command. I'll study on it. Better to do it correctly than go for a quick fix.

touch its mostly useful to create an empty file. Remember that you can always open gedit as sudo, put that line and save the file.

found on google

Hi jsalpha2...

Yes, I also dont like entering commands that I have no idea what they mean. I found this that helps quite a bit.

http://explainshell.com/

about
write down a command-line to see the help text that matches each argument
(support for control flows (if/while/etc.) and command substitutions will be added later on)

Just copy and paste the command in the 'explain ' box and enter....
In your case it does not explain 'touch' thoroughly but it does show a link to the 'touch' man page, and it can be helpful otherwise.
http://explainshell.com/explain?cmd=sud ... 2Fsid.list

(click)
[rimg]http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll58 ... 074013.png[/rimg]

[MoldMe]

@zerozero...Very nice and detailed tutorial. Why do you pin the Debian Testing/Unstable repo at 50 versus 100?

[zerozero]

this was made some time ago and as usual i don't keep the notes (my notes are my posts) but i remember that i tried several values;

• 400 didn't work at all, D-U would upgrade packages in step 4.
• tried 100 and i vaguely remember some inconsistencies in a couple of the sample apt policy that i took
• 50 gave me solid results and i couldn't find official literature against its usage, so 50 it was

[kurotsugi]

as for me,
- 400 works quite well to prevent accidental move into sid
- 100 works too but I got no point giving it 100 (it works just like any value between 100 and 500)
- 50 means the package won't get updated from sid unless I told apt to do so

the problem with 400 was...it becomes quite complicated when I put more repo on my list. 50 gives me a better solid result for holding back any upgrades from sid.

[MoldMe]

this was made some time ago and as usual i don't keep the notes (my notes are my posts) but i remember that i tried several values;

• 400 didn't work at all, D-U would upgrade packages in step 4.
• tried 100 and i vaguely remember some inconsistencies in a couple of the sample apt policy that i took
• 50 gave me solid results and i couldn't find official literature against its usage, so 50 it was

I've pinned Unstable repos at 100 when I tried tracking Unstable with CrunchBang, and that was the suggested pin value by the way. I did have issues, but that had more to do with my GPU.

In any case, if 50 worked for you based on your testing, then I'll use 50 as well. Thank you.

[m00se]

I was going to try this for a couple packages but at the end I got:

After,

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dave@solyd-k ~ $ apt update && apt dist-upgrade

Output:

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.
.
.
.
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  init
The following packages have been kept back:
  plasma-widget-networkmanagement
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
Need to get 4,488 B of archives.
After this operation, 29.7 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
Abort.

I've got plasma-widget-networkmanagement black listed because I prefer it over the newer Networkmanager, but what's up with init?

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dave@solyd-k ~ $ apt policy init

produces:

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init:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 1.20
  Version table:
     1.20 0
         50 http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages

Any suggestions?

[zerozero]

what is this new init metapackage >> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... bug=756023
the rest depends of what you were trying to do

[m00se]

I was just looking to use more recent versions of Gimp and Darktable.

Should I just be careful until that buggy package gets fixed or is there a better way to block it in the mean time? It only gets prompted for install with apt dist-upgrade.