What are now my options for newer apps?

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Orbmiser
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What are now my options for newer apps?

Postby Orbmiser » 08 Sep 2014 04:13

What are my options for needing newer versions of apps?
How will that change now because of the freeze?

As been interested in learning digital painting lately So checked and Debian shows Krita 2.7.5 which is like Nov.-Dec. Last year? And no 2.8.xxx released this year back on March 5 at all from Debian?

So for newer apps or at least every 3 months in age what are my options?
Learn to compile my own? Or Secret Deb Cache somewhere?

Any insights or clarifications in the freeze process would be appreciated.
As would think this kind of staleness could hurt Debian or SolydXK?

Thanks!
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Snap
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Re: What are now my options for newer apps?

Postby Snap » 08 Sep 2014 08:17

Go Manjaro! :lol: :lol: :lol: Sorry, just kidding. I couldn't resist it. 8-)

If you want bleeding edge you should consider tracking Sid instead of testing or stable. I know that some guys are using the last versions of Gimp, Blender, etc... on stable. But it's always a complex thing. You need to compile yourself in most cases and you may end up with a mess of libraries. That's why I bailed out Stable months ago. Not for those exact applications, Just others, but the same situation.
This likely means that your installation is broken. -Mr Pixbuf.

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Zill
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Re: What are now my options for newer apps?

Postby Zill » 08 Sep 2014 11:26

Orbmiser: You said you will be "needing newer versions of apps" but is this really the case? Are you now so experienced with all the features in the current versions that any new features are essential to you? If this is not the case then, I suggest, you don't really "need" the very latest versions!

If you stay with the SolydXK main editions (to be based on Debian Stable) then, basically, most applications will stay at the same version until the next Debian Stable release. There may be some security and bug fixes but no new features will be introduced. However, there will be the option to upgrade some applications via backports, but this will inevitably, increase the potential for breakage.

If newer apps really are more important to you than possible system breakage then you could use the new SolydXK “Enthusiast’s Editions” (EE) which will directly track Debian Testing. As long as your systems are not business critical, and you don't mind some downtime, this could be a good option for you.

Alternatively, you could just "fly solo" and compile your own applications for your system. This should give you the latest apps but will mean that you will have to ensure all dependencies are met yourself as you will no longer have the advantages of using a package management system. This maintenance will, of course, need to be done on an ongoing basis as and when software versions change.

p.s. "Staleness" is unlikely to hurt Debian (and ultimately SolydXK) because (from the Debian Wiki) "Understand that the job of Debian is, and always has been, to produce Stable. The other releases are means to that end."

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Re: What are now my options for newer apps?

Postby Orbmiser » 08 Sep 2014 16:13

Zill wrote:Orbmiser: You said you will be "needing newer versions of apps" but is this really the case? Are you now so experienced with all the features in the current versions that any new features are essential to you? If this is not the case then, I suggest, you don't really "need" the very latest versions!
Unfortunately there always seems to be a handful of apps I need due to bug fixes or added features I could use.

1) Krita - 2.8 fixes bugs for working with a Monoprice 10X6.25 Inch Graphic Drawing Tablet I plan to get at end of month. Also many of the newer tutorials are about using those slew of new features and functions.
2) Calibre - Newer version fixes a communication error with my Nook Color Tablet.
3) LibreOffice - Constantly fixing bugs and adding features and functions I may very well need. Can't say for sure. But would be nice not to run into them with a 30 page document lost.
4) Wine - Ongoing issue that after using Dvdshrink it crashes and requires a close. Don't know if a newer version would actually resolve that. As didn't look too deep as not a real biggy.
5) darktable - Constant ongoing bug fixes and added features that I could actually use daily in editing images.

May be off in my perceptions. But seems quite hard? to have a stable core OS & Desktop with newer apps possible?
Unless you want to roll up your sleeves and compile your own. But then there is the issue you could break something.

As was what drew me to SolydXK was newer apps on a more throughly tested base OS & Desktop. But seems this is more of a Debian issue than SolydXK. I don't mind apps that are 2 or 3 months old. But Krita 2.7.5 was released in Nov. or Dec. last year. And now that means 9 or 10 months old. Which is significant and unacceptable for my needs. If it was I would be on Debian stable branch. And why I was on Testing +++ with SolydXK.

As to Manjaro or KaOS or Netrunner.. Yep maybe but I sure hate that retro ugly Octopi and the added confusion of Pacman being even more cryptic in updating your system. And more Term centric for handling packages which I am trying to get away from. As wanting a truly gui/mouse driven experience. As this old foggy brain with only half-a-dozen working neurons can't retain term commands of the cryptic type. Don't get me wrong Pacman is a much more powerful packaging and updating tool for a linux system. It's just I generally day to day don't need a Barrett 50 cal. sniper rifle for hunting rabbits.
Even Apper was easy and integrated well with my KDE and covered updates and installing packages well no issues. And am sure I won't be able to use those on a arch based like pacman or yougart based kind of packaging.
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Re: What are now my options for newer apps?

Postby ScottQuier » 08 Sep 2014 16:45

Orbmiser wrote: May be off in my perceptions. But seems quite hard? to have a stable core OS & Desktop with newer apps possible?
Newer apps package(s) may have dependencies on other new packages which, in turn, may not play well with others. This can result in breakage.
Orbmiser wrote: Unless you want to roll up your sleeves and compile your own. But then there is the issue you could break something.
I would think a straight compile and installation of an application package shouldn't break anything. It will either compile or it won't - depending on whether all dependencies have been met. The breakage comes in when one attempts to update these decency packages and it turns out the updated package doesn't play well with others. I compile darktable on a regular basis and have yet to experience a problem. However, that's all been with the SolydXK Home Editions. I have no idea what is going to happen a year or more after Jessie becomes stable.
Orbmiser wrote: As was what drew me to SolydXK was newer apps on a more thoroughly tested base OS & Desktop. But seems this is more of a Debian issue than SolydXK. I don't mind apps that are 2 or 3 months old. But Krita 2.7.5 was released in Nov. or Dec. last year. And now that means 9 or 10 months old. Which is significant and unacceptable for my needs. If it was I would be on Debian stable branch. And why I was on Testing +++ with SolydXK.
Which is a good reason to move to the Enthusiast's Edition when the transition happens - which will be quite some time yet. I haven't, yet, decided in which direction I will be moving - but, there's still plenty of time.
Scott
Quoting zerozero, "The usage of PPA's in debian-based
systems is risky at best and entails serious compatibility
problems; usually it's the best way to destroy an install"

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Re: What are now my options for newer apps?

Postby Zill » 08 Sep 2014 18:57

Orbmiser wrote:...May be off in my perceptions. But seems quite hard? to have a stable core OS & Desktop with newer apps possible?...
The problem is that "newer apps" also introduce newer bugs! Debian Stable has achieved its peerless reputation for reliability precisely because it does not have the latest software. All the packages accepted into Debian Stable have been thoroughly tested and debugged while in the other releases, such as Testing, to ensure that they run well and integrate with the other Stable packages. While Debian Stable applications may not be the latest versions, they are certainly the most reliable and appropriate applications for professional users and others wanting a relatively bug-free system.

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Orbmiser
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Re: What are now my options for newer apps?

Postby Orbmiser » 08 Sep 2014 19:17

Thanks for the replies and yep was aware of the reasons and differences between stable and testing.
And yep intend to move to EE when the time arises.

But like mentioned quite a ways off. So will have to look into my other options to get Krita 2.8 and Calibre fixes.
As do need to resolve app needs in next 3 weeks. Especially getting updated version of Krita. Will look into how to compile my own. Increases my knowledge about linux. And the least disruptive then moving to another distro.

And think I saw a thread somewhere here on how to compile your own programs? :?

As 98.63534212% happy camper with SolydXK. :P
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Re: What are now my options for newer apps?

Postby drc » 08 Sep 2014 19:28

Orbmiser wrote:So will have to look into my other options to get Krita 2.8 and Calibre fixes.
Calibre is easy. From the website ( http://calibre-ebook.com/download_linux)

Code: Select all

sudo -v && wget -nv -O- https://raw.githubusercontent.com/kovidgoyal/calibre/master/setup/linux-installer.py | sudo python -c "import sys; main=lambda:sys.stderr.write('Download failed\n'); exec(sys.stdin.read()); main()"
in a terminal will get you the up to date version (most often updated on a weekly basis, usually on a Friday). I'd remove Calibre installed from the repos first though (I THINK they are put in different locations).

Be advised that with the release of Calibre 2.0, QT5 has replaced QT4, and I've had nothing but problems with MY font display in Calibre (only) since.

Scrolling down the web page ("If you wish to revert to an earlier calibre release or download a calibre upgrade manually...") gives instructions for installing Not-Current versions of Calibre (but probably more current than what's in the repos).

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Re: What are now my options for newer apps?

Postby ScottQuier » 08 Sep 2014 22:00

Here's how I compile DT --> http://forums.solydxk.nl/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3386

And this is how I do/did the OnBoard virtual keyboard --> http://forums.solydxk.nl/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2381

And, this is pretty much what I do in terms of getting all the stuff I might need to compile --> http://forums.solydxk.nl/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3604

You may/will not need all those packages. It's just a grouping of all the packages I've needed in the past for various builds.
Scott
Quoting zerozero, "The usage of PPA's in debian-based
systems is risky at best and entails serious compatibility
problems; usually it's the best way to destroy an install"


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