link to version list?

Questions about software.
nbi
Posts: 32
Joined: 10 Feb 2014 18:59

link to version list?

Postby nbi » 16 Oct 2014 21:31

Without downloading and/or extracting/installing where can I find the list of software versions, particularly for the libraries like libc6 ? It would be nice if a browsable text file would be available alongside the packages.

Deleted User 2763

Re: link to version list?

Postby Deleted User 2763 » 17 Oct 2014 00:39

Can't you see this information using synaptic?
-Hinto

User avatar
ScottQuier
Posts: 1781
Joined: 18 Jul 2013 15:55
Location: Newport News, VA

Re: link to version list?

Postby ScottQuier » 17 Oct 2014 11:41

Using something like

Code: Select all

dpkg -l
should get you well started, especially if you pipe the output to a text file.
Scott
Quoting zerozero, "The usage of PPA's in debian-based
systems is risky at best and entails serious compatibility
problems; usually it's the best way to destroy an install"

nbi
Posts: 32
Joined: 10 Feb 2014 18:59

Re: link to version list?

Postby nbi » 17 Oct 2014 17:22

ScottQuier wrote:Using something like

Code: Select all

dpkg -l
should get you well started, especially if you pipe the output to a text file.
That's "installed" packages. I don't want to install, change sources.list, or use any package tools to answer the question "what is in your distro?".

Here's an example. Your favorite app has a critical bug fix that's only available in the very latest version. Unfortunately that version has a dependency on a common run time library much newer than what you have installed. You obviously don't want to gut your working system in a hit or miss fashion by just assuming the latest distro will work. That means you need to install a new distro. Problem is if the distro isn't new enough it won't have the needed library version. Hence you want to find out in advance if someone's distro contains the needed library version. That could easily be done if the producer of the distro simply publishes the version list. That's essentially what the Debian/Ubuntu web based package tools do for packages, but we need the list for an entire distro because looking at any one package in isolation won't help.

Deleted User 2763

Re: link to version list?

Postby Deleted User 2763 » 17 Oct 2014 17:27

synaptic shows all, installed or not in a gui.
-H

nbi
Posts: 32
Joined: 10 Feb 2014 18:59

Re: link to version list?

Postby nbi » 17 Oct 2014 17:42

hinto wrote:synaptic shows all, installed or not in a gui.
-H
That is not correct. If it isn't in /etc/apt/sources.list then it can't be reported on. What do you think Synaptic does when you refresh it?

Deleted User 2763

Re: link to version list?

Postby Deleted User 2763 » 17 Oct 2014 17:46

It is.
Everything known (installed or not) is in sources.list (or sources.list.d)

If you are looking for unknown unknowns, then you'll have to scour the net.
-Hinto

User avatar
ScottQuier
Posts: 1781
Joined: 18 Jul 2013 15:55
Location: Newport News, VA

Re: link to version list?

Postby ScottQuier » 17 Oct 2014 17:50

nbi wrote:
hinto wrote:synaptic shows all, installed or not in a gui.
-H
That is not correct. If it isn't in /etc/apt/sources.list then it can't be reported on. What do you think Synaptic does when you refresh it?
When one runs

Code: Select all

apt-get update
a database of all packages available in the sources referenced in one's sources.list file is refreshed. Included is information as to whether any given package is installed on one's system.

Synaptic and dpgk (and other programs) reference that database and can retrieve a list of all packages available in the repos point to by the sources.list file .... irrespective of whether they are actually installed on one's system.

If one wants more packages than are available from the repos listed in one's sources.list file, then one needs to edit the sources.list file and refresh the database (apt-get update).
Scott
Quoting zerozero, "The usage of PPA's in debian-based
systems is risky at best and entails serious compatibility
problems; usually it's the best way to destroy an install"

nbi
Posts: 32
Joined: 10 Feb 2014 18:59

Re: link to version list?

Postby nbi » 17 Oct 2014 18:21

ScottQuier wrote:
nbi wrote:
hinto wrote:synaptic shows all, installed or not in a gui.
-H
That is not correct. If it isn't in /etc/apt/sources.list then it can't be reported on. What do you think Synaptic does when you refresh it?
When one runs

Code: Select all

apt-get update
a database of all packages available in the sources referenced in one's sources.list file is refreshed. Included is information as to whether any given package is installed on one's system.

Synaptic and dpgk (and other programs) reference that database and can retrieve a list of all packages available in the repos point to by the sources.list file .... irrespective of whether they are actually installed on one's system.

If one wants more packages than are available from the repos listed in one's sources.list file, then one needs to edit the sources.list file and refresh the database (apt-get update).
Exactly. And I said I don't want to modify sources.list.

If you're considering distros other than by the vendor of your currently installed then sources.list will not reference it by default.

What's easier and less error prone? A simple scan of a text file available over the web or modifying sources.list and running Synaptic?? If I'm the producer of a distro then creating and publishing the list is totally trivial.

Deleted User 2763

Re: link to version list?

Postby Deleted User 2763 » 17 Oct 2014 18:25

The web is a pretty big place.
(so I hear)

I think you need to visit Debian.org.
Debian provides more than a pure OS: it comes with over 37500 packages, precompiled software bundled up in a nice format for easy installation on your machine
https://www.debian.org/intro/about

The easier question is can you find something that is _not_ in the pre-built binary list.

-Hinto

nbi
Posts: 32
Joined: 10 Feb 2014 18:59

Re: link to version list?

Postby nbi » 17 Oct 2014 18:37

hinto wrote:The web is a pretty big place.
(so I hear)

I think you need to visit Debian.org.
Debian provides more than a pure OS: it comes with over 37500 packages, precompiled software bundled up in a nice format for easy installation on your machine
https://www.debian.org/intro/about

The easier question is can you find something that is _not_ in the pre-built binary list.

-Hinto
Well acquainted with Debian - been using it for many years. You just don't understand the issue. If I'm considering some arbitrary vendor's distro xyz then how do I find out what library versions are in xyz if they don't make a URL available for inclusion in sources.list ? I'll tell you. They make a compressed text file available on their public ftp/http system. Can't make it any simpler than that. If some vendors choose not make such a list available that's unfortunate shortsightedness because making potential users do extra work is not good promotion.

User avatar
Zill
Posts: 1850
Joined: 13 Aug 2013 14:28
Location: Lincolnshire, UK

Re: link to version list?

Postby Zill » 17 Oct 2014 20:28

nbi: It looks to me like you want someone to catalogue every file in every distro on the planet - and then publish it for your convenience! I doubt if anyone is really going to do this but if you think this is important then, in true FOSS tradition, you might like to start this task yourself... ;-)

nbi
Posts: 32
Joined: 10 Feb 2014 18:59

Re: link to version list?

Postby nbi » 17 Oct 2014 20:41

Zill wrote:nbi: It looks to me like you want someone to catalogue every file in every distro on the planet - and then publish it for your convenience! I doubt if anyone is really going to do this but if you think this is important then, in true FOSS tradition, you might like to start this task yourself... ;-)
You don't get it neither. Anyone who is creating a distro and making it available for public consumption can trivially create the list via 'dpkg --list'. If they want to make it easy for people to adopt their distro then this is a nice convenience that doesn't require much time nor effort. Rational people aren't going to blindly try distros in the hope that their critical app is adequately supported without creating a dependency mess.

User avatar
ScottQuier
Posts: 1781
Joined: 18 Jul 2013 15:55
Location: Newport News, VA

Re: link to version list?

Postby ScottQuier » 19 Oct 2014 23:22

nbi wrote: You don't get it neither. Anyone who is creating a distro and making it available for public consumption can trivially create the list via 'dpkg --list'. If they want to make it easy for people to adopt their distro then this is a nice convenience that doesn't require much time nor effort. Rational people aren't going to blindly try distros in the hope that their critical app is adequately supported without creating a dependency mess.
My comment (here) almost smacks of "beating the dead horse" but .....
  1. I understand what it is you are asking for. I also understand that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject.
  2. To my mind, this seems to be a solution of limited scope - very narrow/small audience
  3. You are right when you say that it would be trivial to do.
  4. For some distros, this list would change a nearly daily basis ... especially for those distros that are tracking, for example, Debian Testing as a rolling release rather than using Update Packs.
  5. It would be just as trivial for users to do as well from within a LiveUSB booted session. See points #2 and #4 why it would be better for users to do than for the distro maintainers.
Scott
Quoting zerozero, "The usage of PPA's in debian-based
systems is risky at best and entails serious compatibility
problems; usually it's the best way to destroy an install"

kurotsugi
Posts: 2258
Joined: 09 Jan 2014 00:17

Re: link to version list?

Postby kurotsugi » 20 Oct 2014 02:03

Without downloading and/or extracting/installing where can I find the list of software versions, particularly for the libraries like libc6 ? It would be nice if a browsable text file would be available alongside the packages.
in debian, there's no easier way than using tracker.debian.org. simply insert the package name, press enter, done. you'll got all information about that package there.

User avatar
greywolf
Posts: 103
Joined: 27 Feb 2013 22:34
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: link to version list?

Postby greywolf » 20 Oct 2014 11:47

Some of what the op wants may be available through Distrowatch search function:

http://distrowatch.com/search.php

This extract is part of their Search options:
Package searches

Search the DistroWatch database for distributions using a particular package. If you are looking for a distribution with the latest kernel, select "linux" from the drop-down box below and type the version number into the text box next to it. Please note that the best way to obtain the GNOME version is by searching for "nautilus", while KDE is represented by the "kdelibs" package. Apache 2.x is listed as "httpd". As for versioning, try to be as close to official version numbers as possible: as an example, for libgnome you should type 2.8.0 (not 2.8) and for kdelibs 4.7.4 (not 4.7). Have fun and let us know how we can improve the search engine!

Package: Version:
You can also look at the individual page for each distro which shows current package version vs latest available version for some important (NOT ALL) packages.

Publishing such a "listing" would be idiotic for a rolling release! It would be out of date possibly even before it was 1st published. If the above does not help, download some live cds and check them out at the package level; you don't have to install anything? You just have to be prepared to make some effort yourself.

A little more patience and a little less attitude might illicit more useful replies.

greywolf.
It was about the dragons. It was always about the dragons!

nbi
Posts: 32
Joined: 10 Feb 2014 18:59

Re: link to version list?

Postby nbi » 23 Oct 2014 18:36

greywolf wrote:Some of what the op wants may be available through Distrowatch search function:

http://distrowatch.com/search.php

This extract is part of their Search options:
Package searches

Search the DistroWatch database for distributions using a particular package. If you are looking for a distribution with the latest kernel, select "linux" from the drop-down box below and type the version number into the text box next to it. Please note that the best way to obtain the GNOME version is by searching for "nautilus", while KDE is represented by the "kdelibs" package. Apache 2.x is listed as "httpd". As for versioning, try to be as close to official version numbers as possible: as an example, for libgnome you should type 2.8.0 (not 2.8) and for kdelibs 4.7.4 (not 4.7). Have fun and let us know how we can improve the search engine!

Package: Version:
You can also look at the individual page for each distro which shows current package version vs latest available version for some important (NOT ALL) packages.

Publishing such a "listing" would be idiotic for a rolling release! It would be out of date possibly even before it was 1st published. If the above does not help, download some live cds and check them out at the package level; you don't have to install anything? You just have to be prepared to make some effort yourself.

A little more patience and a little less attitude might illicit more useful replies.

greywolf.
Thanks for the distrowatch info. That seems to fit the need.

As for your other comment "It would be out of date...blah blah". You should practice what you preach. Can you say the word "automation"? What do you think happens during nightly builds? The list gets regenerated on each build so it is *always* up to date. It's just a matter of pointing the URL to the right file. What's idiotic is your suggestion to download a live CD when a simple text file scan would do. I guess you think it's easier to lower the river than to raise the bridge. :roll:

User avatar
Zill
Posts: 1850
Joined: 13 Aug 2013 14:28
Location: Lincolnshire, UK

Re: link to version list?

Postby Zill » 23 Oct 2014 19:14

nbi: You have received several useful responses in this thread, not least greywolfs very helpful specific answer to your query. However, the rather contemptuous last paragraph of your latest post is, I suspect, not really appreciated by many of us here. We are all just volunteers trying to help each other out. No-one needs to respond to your posts so a little politeness goes a long way.

You will already have gathered that your request is rather "unusual" to say the least. I doubt if many other users really want what you are looking for. On this basis, I can only repeat greywolfs good advice... "You just have to be prepared to make some effort yourself. A little more patience and a little less attitude might illicit more useful replies."

nbi
Posts: 32
Joined: 10 Feb 2014 18:59

Re: link to version list?

Postby nbi » 23 Oct 2014 19:32

Zill wrote:nbi: You have received several useful responses in this thread, not least greywolfs very helpful specific answer to your query. However, the rather contemptuous last paragraph of your latest post is, I suspect, not really appreciated by many of us here. We are all just volunteers trying to help each other out. No-one needs to respond to your posts so a little politeness goes a long way.

You will already have gathered that your request is rather "unusual" to say the least. I doubt if many other users really want what you are looking for. On this basis, I can only repeat greywolfs good advice... "You just have to be prepared to make some effort yourself. A little more patience and a little less attitude might illicit more useful replies."
Look, I've just about had it with *your* attitude. Knock it off with the double standards. I post a simple question and without knowing anything about me posters heap the usual newbie derision including words like "idiotic". I don't mind entertaining questions as part of a well reasoned dialog, but when insults and zingers are thrown in I reserve the right to respond appropriately.

Many folks in this forum apparently do not develop software for a living. I can appreciate that. But if you're one of these folks don't assume everyone is like you or a newbie until proven otherwise. As someone who has developed software professionally for 30+ years I can tell you that it's routine practice to automatically generate lists which describe the concurrently generated build products. It's a simple matter of describing what you built for those who make use of it. Apparently that's not a common practice for modern linux distros, but that in no way invalidates the merit of the idea.

User avatar
Orbmiser
Posts: 829
Joined: 24 Aug 2013 22:58
Location: Portland,Oregon

Re: link to version list?

Postby Orbmiser » 23 Oct 2014 20:09

nbi wrote:
Look, I've just about had it with *your* attitude. Knock it off with the double standards. I post a simple question and without knowing anything about me posters heap the usual newbie derision including words like "idiotic". I don't mind entertaining questions as part of a well reasoned dialog, but when insults and zingers are thrown in I reserve the right to respond appropriately.
Look everyone here was trying to be helpful. And None! called you idiotic. They mentioned it as the process of generating a ever changing list daily as idiotic. Not You!
Look, I've just about had it with *your* attitude.
I'm sorry and don't have a dog in this fight. All I'm noticing is You are the one coming across with Attitude. I re-read the posts twice to be sure. And you are the only one giving me I'm entitled to a acceptable answer or don't bother answering me. As isn't the answer I want to hear. And you were the only one coming across demanding and a bit pushy and a bit in a condescending way.

I'm not here to piss you off or make it worse. Just asking you if you may be a bit out of line? When everyone been trying to help. And none have talked down to you or called you disparaging names. As first they were trying to clarify what you were trying to do and what you needed.
.
Portfolio
http://500px.com/Orbmiser
Flickr
http://www.flickr.com/photos/orb9220/

SolydK - Kernel 3.16-2-amd64 - KDE 4.14.1 Update Pack: 2014.10.15


Return to “Software”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 3 guests