Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

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MAYBL8
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby MAYBL8 » 22 May 2015 11:17

Code: Select all

solydk64 Brother # uname -a
Linux solydk64 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt9-3 (2015-04-23) x86_64 GNU/Linux

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Repos:     Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list
           deb http://repository.solydxk.com solydxk main upstream import
           deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free
           deb http://security.debian.org testing/updates main contrib non-free
           deb http://liquorix.net/debian sid main


Chris M
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby Chris M » 22 May 2015 12:36

kurotsugi wrote:there's a serious bug on kernel 4.0 series which causing massive data lost. if you have the old kernel it might better to use them instead of the 4.0 series. https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... bug=785672
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... ssue-Found

It looks like it only affects RAID setups. Would Debian allow the kernel to drop down into Testing with such a serious bug? I'm guessing the answer is Yes.

It may not matter. 4.0.2-1 has not yet dropped down into Testing. I'm assuming it's waiting on linux-tools 4.0.2-1.

I think I remember this "waiting on linux-tools" issue from the last cycle. I don't have it installed, but Debian holds back on the new kernel dropping into Testing until linux-tools comes around to the newest kernel version. It's confusing, because linux-tools is at 4.0.2-1 in Unstable and 3.16+63 is already in Testing, but the hold-back info makes no sense. If that is updated to waiting on linux-tools 4.0.2-1 this weekend, there will still be a 5 day waiting period.

The permanent kernel fix probably won't come until 4.0.5. It's a holiday weekend in the US. This could be an issue for RAID users for a while. Too bad that the 3.19 kernel wasn't on tap.

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belze
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby belze » 22 May 2015 15:51

If i had a raid system i'd have enough knowledge to know how to solve this issue. Lastly if i had a raid system i'd use stabile.
On my laptop i have 4.x kernel from sid. I'm going to downgrade...
-------
Image

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MAYBL8
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby MAYBL8 » 22 May 2015 16:11

So just to clear things up for me.
I am running testing and don't have 4.x kernel and by the time it makes it to testing this fix will be applied?
Thanks
Dan


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Zill
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby Zill » 22 May 2015 16:34

MAYBL8: Your repos include "deb http://liquorix.net/debian sid main" which is apparently based on sid, not testing, and seems to include the following meta package...
Package: linux-image-liquorix-amd64
Source: linux-liquorix
Version: 4.0-8
Architecture: amd64
As you seem to be running kernel 3.16.0-4-amd64 have you held this kernel or pinned the liquorix repo in some way?

http://liquorix.net/debian/dists/sid/ma ... 4/Packages

Caveat: I don't use any liquorix kernels or run Debian testing and so I may be completely off-beam. ;-)

Chris M
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby Chris M » 22 May 2015 16:43

MAYBL8, there's a patch out there for this, but as far as it getting into the kernel, it probably won't make it until 4.0.5.

https://www.kernel.org/

Torvalds usually releases the mainline (RC) kernel update every Sunday evening, but the latest stable update usually comes out not exactly on that schedule. It could come really at any time.

But that doesn't mean it will flow into Debian (at any level) any time soon. Debian is trying to drop 4.0.2 right now. It's possible, given the bug, that it never drops, and we get the 4.0.5 whenever (and it would have to flow from sid/Unstable).

Or, they could drop linux-tools 4.0.2-1 tomorrow (doubtful) - which would set up a 5 day window for kernel 4.0.2 to drop into testing. It's hard to tell since Debian still shows 3.16+63 as held up.

There are too many variables. belze is on sid, so his/her move is understandable. If you're on Testing, keep watch and be careful with your DU. If you see that 4.0.2 wants to install, you may want to hit "n", and then wait it out for 4.0.5 (or whatever post 4.0.4 kernel Debian rolls with).

I don't think this is an issue for non-RAID setups, and it's possible that 4.0.2 never drops.

kurotsugi
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby kurotsugi » 22 May 2015 17:12

my bad...my previous post were actually for sid. the thread name is similar and I mistook this thread for the one for sid. sorry for the confussion.
Would Debian allow the kernel to drop down into Testing with such a serious bug? I'm guessing the answer is Yes.
in general it depends on whether if the bug got discovered between 10 days sid "testing" interval or not. in this case the bug got discovered before the kernel move into testing.

Code: Select all

  Version table:
     4.0+64 650
         50 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
     3.16+63 650
        500 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ testing/main amd64 Packages
this issue already fixed upstream so we only need to wait until it hit sid.
It may not matter. 4.0.2-1 has not yet dropped down into Testing. I'm assuming it's waiting on linux-tools 4.0.2-1.
not quite sure about it but the one in sid is 4.0.2 and there's no update since then. the next kernel on sid will be 4.0.5 or newer ones. linux-tools is compiled along with linux-kernel and because of the dependency they have to enter testing at same time. linux-kernel didn't migrated not because it wait linux-tools but rather because it has lot of problems. https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/linux meanwhile, the linux-tools itself actually a valid candidate for testing https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/linux-tools.
If i had a raid system i'd have enough knowledge to know how to solve this issue. Lastly if i had a raid system i'd use stabile. On my laptop i have 4.x kernel from sid. I'm going to downgrade...
downgrade isn't necessary. you can install 3.16 series from testing along with 4.0 series from sid. you only need to avoid using the 4.0 series until we got 4.0.5 or newer ones.
So just to clear things up for me.
I am running testing and don't have 4.x kernel and by the time it makes it to testing this fix will be applied?
Thanks
Dan
sorry for the confusion but testing's kernel is actually 3.16 series and the 4.0 series haven't migrated into testing yet. the previous warning was for sid user. and yes, when new kernel hit testing this issue is already fixed.

Chris M
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby Chris M » 23 May 2015 03:41

kurotsugi wrote:
Would Debian allow the kernel to drop down into Testing with such a serious bug? I'm guessing the answer is Yes.
in general it depends on whether if the bug got discovered between 10 days sid "testing" interval or not. in this case the bug got discovered before the kernel move into testing.
https://release.debian.org/migration/oldest.html

https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgrepo ... nc=serious

You're right about the those 2 bugs. I blew right past them. Since we know the big one won't be addressed until 4.0.5, are you saying that there's no way 4.0.2 will migrate? As far as the 10 days are concerned, are you saying that once a package becomes a candidate for Testing, if a bug is discovered within the first 10 days as a candidate, it gets held up? If a package is waiting, but "has RC bugs", does that mean the package won't drop until it has no RC bugs?
kurotsugi wrote:
It may not matter. 4.0.2-1 has not yet dropped down into Testing. I'm assuming it's waiting on linux-tools 4.0.2-1.
not quite sure about it but the one in sid is 4.0.2 and there's no update since then. the next kernel on sid will be 4.0.5 or newer ones. linux-tools is compiled along with linux-kernel and because of the dependency they have to enter testing at same time. linux-kernel didn't migrated not because it wait linux-tools but rather because it has lot of problems. https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/linux meanwhile, the linux-tools itself actually a valid candidate for testing https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/linux-tools.
OK. What was confusing is that while the kernel on deck to drop is 4.0.2, the linux-tools version waiting to drop is supposed to be 3.16+63. And I know that the kernel won't drop before linux-tools comes up to 4.0.2. They both have been waiting the same number of days. But in synaptic, linux-tools shows 3.16+63 as the latest installable version - which makes no sense.

Thanks

kurotsugi
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby kurotsugi » 23 May 2015 06:08

are you saying that there's no way 4.0.2 will migrate?
yes. it won't migrate to testing.
As far as the 10 days are concerned, are you saying that once a package becomes a candidate for Testing, if a bug is discovered within the first 10 days as a candidate, it gets held up? If a package is waiting, but "has RC bugs", does that mean the package won't drop until it has no RC bugs?
in general it depends on the bug severities. minor bug might still allowed but grave/serious bug will hold the packages on sid. the policy was made by the release team so it depends on the current team to allow an RC bug or not. however, the previous release team is quite strict and lot of people happy with their decision. if the policy didn't changed then a package with an RC bug discovered during test period won't migrate to testing.
What was confusing is that while the kernel on deck to drop is 4.0.2, the linux-tools version waiting to drop is supposed to be 3.16+63. And I know that the kernel won't drop before linux-tools comes up to 4.0.2. They both have been waiting the same number of days. But in synaptic, linux-tools shows 3.16+63 as the latest installable version - which makes no sense.
the linux-tools in sid is 4.0 series. both waithing the same number of days because both packages uploaded at same time

Code: Select all

  Version table:
     4.0+64 650
         50 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
     3.16+63 650
        500 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ testing/main amd64 Packages 
synaptic might not provide a reliable result. just to make sure, let's do another check in your system

Code: Select all

inxi -r
apt-cache policy |grep unstable
apt-cache policy linux-tools

Chris M
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby Chris M » 23 May 2015 14:42

kurotsugi wrote:synaptic might not provide a reliable result. just to make sure, let's do another check in your system

Code: Select all

inxi -r
apt-cache policy |grep unstable
apt-cache policy linux-tools

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root@asus:/home/chris# inxi -r
Repos:     Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list
           deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free
           deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free
           deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
           deb-src http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
root@asus:/home/chris# apt-cache policy |grep unstable
root@asus:/home/chris# apt-cache policy linux-tools
linux-tools:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 3.16+63
  Version table:
     3.16+63 0
        500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch/main amd64 Packages
If I run...

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inxi -r
apt-cache policy |grep testing
apt-cache policy linux-tools
I get...

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root@asus:/home/chris# inxi -r
Repos:     Active apt sources in file: /etc/apt/sources.list
           deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free
           deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian stretch main contrib non-free
           deb http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
           deb-src http://security.debian.org/ stretch/updates main contrib non-free
root@asus:/home/chris# apt-cache policy |grep testing
     release o=Debian,a=testing,n=stretch,l=Debian-Security,c=non-free
     release o=Debian,a=testing,n=stretch,l=Debian-Security,c=contrib
     release o=Debian,a=testing,n=stretch,l=Debian-Security,c=main
     release o=Debian,a=testing,n=stretch,l=Debian-Security,c=non-free
     release o=Debian,a=testing,n=stretch,l=Debian-Security,c=contrib
     release o=Debian,a=testing,n=stretch,l=Debian-Security,c=main
     release o=Debian,a=testing,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=non-free
     release o=Debian,a=testing,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=contrib
     release o=Debian,a=testing,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=main
     release o=Debian,a=testing,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=non-free
     release o=Debian,a=testing,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=contrib
     release o=Debian,a=testing,n=stretch,l=Debian,c=main
root@asus:/home/chris# apt-cache policy linux-tools
linux-tools:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 3.16+63
  Version table:
     3.16+63 0
        500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ stretch/main amd64 Packages
I have no idea why version 3.16+63 is showing up as the candidate. It's already available in Testing:

https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=linux-tools

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grizzler
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby grizzler » 23 May 2015 15:44

The candidate is the installation candidate, i.e. the version that would be installed on your system if you did an apt-get install. Your system is tracking Testing, so the installation candidate is 3.16+63.
Frank

SolydX EE 64 - tracking Debian Testing

Chris M
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby Chris M » 23 May 2015 16:24

grizzler wrote:The candidate is the installation candidate, i.e. the version that would be installed on your system if you did an apt-get install. Your system is tracking Testing, so the installation candidate is 3.16+63.
I understand that 3.16+63 is designated as the candidate. My point is that it shouldn't be. 3.16+63 is already in Testing. If linux-tools was running behind the 4.0.2 kernel candidate (which is impossible, but just for argument's sake, let's say that was the case) and, say, 3.16+64 was the candidate, I would understand. In my mind, linux-tools 4.0+64 should be the candidate (from sid).

Perhaps because of the severity of the bug, the Debian "migration team" has forced 3.16+63 to be the candidate so as to make sure kernel 4.0.2 doesn't drop into Testing?

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grizzler
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby grizzler » 23 May 2015 16:59

The candidate has nothing to do with whether that version is going to enter testing. It's simply the version which is present in that repository and will be installed on your system should you decide to install it.

The version of linux-tools available in testing is 3.16+63. If you install linux-tools, that's the version you get. If you switch your repository to unstable by changing your sources.list, run apt-get update and then apt-cache policy, you will be told the candidate is 4.0+64, because that is the version available in unstable..
Frank

SolydX EE 64 - tracking Debian Testing

Chris M
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby Chris M » 23 May 2015 17:45

Then let's put it another way.

https://release.debian.org/migration/te ... kage=linux

Why is package X not in testing yet?

Checking linux
  • trying to update linux from 3.16.7-ckt9-3 to 4.0.2-1 (candidate is 11 days old)
https://release.debian.org/migration/te ... inux-tools

Why is package X not in testing yet?

Checking linux-tools
  • trying to update linux-tools from 3.16-3 to 3.16+63 (candidate is 11 days old)

Aside from the fact that Debian is designating 3.16+63 as an 11 day old candidate, 3.16-3 isn't really trying to update to 3.16+63. It's already happened. 3.16+63 is already in Testing.

We'll call it trying to enter Testing, instead. My point still remains. One of the stated reasons for kernel 4.0.2 not entering Testing is that it was waiting on linux-tools. If it was waiting on 4.0+64, I would understand. But it essentially says it's waiting on an old version of linux-tools that's already in Testing.

kurotsugi
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby kurotsugi » 23 May 2015 18:48

Aside from the fact that Debian is designating 3.16+63 as an 11 day old candidate, 3.16-3 isn't really trying to update to 3.16+63. It's already happened. 3.16+63 is already in Testing.
you got it wrong. the candidate is the 4.0 ones. 3.16 is already in testing. note that the package version number and the kernel version is not same. if you take a look into the 4.0 series. the package name is 4.0.0 but the actual version is 4.0.2. the 3.16 name is "linux-image-3.16.0.-4-xxx" but the actual version is 3.16.7

to avoid confusion, let me state that what I mean by candidate is "packages in sid which haven't migrated to testing yet". if you have other definition of "candidate" please tell us to avoid misunderstanding.
I understand that 3.16+63 is designated as the candidate. My point is that it shouldn't be. 3.16+63 is already in Testing. If linux-tools was running behind the 4.0.2 kernel candidate (which is impossible, but just for argument's sake, let's say that was the case) and, say, 3.16+64 was the candidate, I would understand. In my mind, linux-tools 4.0+64 should be the candidate (from sid).
with my definition of candidate 3.16 isn't a testing candidate. 3.16+63 already in testing long time ago. the candidate is 4.0+64, not 3.16+64. 3.16+64 didn't exist on debian realm. here's the proof

Code: Select all

apt-cache policy linux-tools
linux-tools:
  Installed: 4.0+64
  Candidate: 4.0+64
  Package pin: 3.16+63
  Version table:
 *** 4.0+64 650
         50 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     3.16+63 650
        500 http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/ testing/main amd64 Packages
Perhaps because of the severity of the bug, the Debian "migration team" has forced 3.16+63 to be the candidate so as to make sure kernel 4.0.2 doesn't drop into Testing?
3.16 actually migrated into testing before stretch so that won't be the case.

I'm not quite sure why did this page https://release.debian.org/migration/te ... inux-tools said that linux tools want to upgrade from 3.16-3 to 3.16+63. 3.16-3 is the version of the source code while the actual package is 3.16+63. 3.16-3 to 3.16+63 means no upgrade at all. it might caused by a mechanism to forcefully hold a package so that it won't move into testing. if you take a look into this page https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/linux-tools linux-tools 4.0.2 is a valid candidate to migrate into testing. however, it must migrate into testing at exact same time with linux-kernel. if linux-tool 4.0.2 migrated into testing then it will broke the entire system. thus, the system overwrite the mechanism and stated that the next linux-tools candidate is 3.16+63 (which means no update at all). it's simply a mechanism crated to prevent a valid candidate to broke "testing" system.

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grizzler
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby grizzler » 23 May 2015 18:49

There are two source packages that contain a binary package called linux-tools (one with -3.16 postfixed): linux-latest and linux-tools. The versioning of these packages appears to be mixed up at the top of this page: https://release.debian.org/migration/te ... inux-tools. 3.16-3 is a version number of the package from the source set linux-tools, while 3.16+63 is from linux-latest. I've seen something like this happen before, when a (binary) package was moving from one source package to another. I'm not saying that's what's happening here, but it could explain why these version numbers don't make sense.

However, the real reason things aren't moving along would seem to be several packages becoming uninstallable because of the update: https://release.debian.org/migration/te ... nux-latest.
Frank

SolydX EE 64 - tracking Debian Testing

Chris M
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Joined: 01 Sep 2013 20:16

Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby Chris M » 24 May 2015 08:11

kurotsugi wrote:
Aside from the fact that Debian is designating 3.16+63 as an 11 day old candidate, 3.16-3 isn't really trying to update to 3.16+63. It's already happened. 3.16+63 is already in Testing.
you got it wrong. the candidate is the 4.0 ones. 3.16 is already in testing. note that the package version number and the kernel version is not same. if you take a look into the 4.0 series. the package name is 4.0.0 but the actual version is 4.0.2. the 3.16 name is "linux-image-3.16.0.-4-xxx" but the actual version is 3.16.7

to avoid confusion, let me state that what I mean by candidate is "packages in sid which haven't migrated to testing yet". if you have other definition of "candidate" please tell us to avoid misunderstanding.
What began this was simply my questioning why linux-tools 4x wasn't on deck to drop into Testing, when the kernel 4.0.2 was on deck. I want my definition of "candidate" to be whatever Debian says it is. I think it's clear that Debian considers a package that has been accepted to supersede the current package in the repo as a "candidate".

I agree that 4.0+64 of linux-tools should be the candidate. But for whatever reason, 3.16+63 is. And so now I'm speculating that perhaps Debian retained 3.16+63 so as to structurally disqualify kernel 4.0.2. "Candidate" certainly doesn't mean what's already in Testing.
kurotsugi wrote:
I understand that 3.16+63 is designated as the candidate. My point is that it shouldn't be. 3.16+63 is already in Testing. If linux-tools was running behind the 4.0.2 kernel candidate (which is impossible, but just for argument's sake, let's say that was the case) and, say, 3.16+64 was the candidate, I would understand. In my mind, linux-tools 4.0+64 should be the candidate (from sid).
3.16+64 didn't exist on debian realm.
I was just throwing out a fictitious advanced version as an example. If a 3x version was on tap to supersede 3.16+63, I would chalk it up to 3x simply not catching up to the kernel (which, in this case, would seem impossible - but you get my point). The bottom line is that Debian is showing a candidate version that is already in Testing. That's unusual. Again, I agree that 4.0+64 should be the candidate.

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Zill
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby Zill » 24 May 2015 10:41

Chris M wrote:... I want my definition of "candidate" to be whatever Debian says it is. I think it's clear that Debian considers a package that has been accepted to supersede the current package in the repo as a "candidate".

I agree that 4.0+64 of linux-tools should be the candidate. But for whatever reason, 3.16+63 is. And so now I'm speculating that perhaps Debian retained 3.16+63 so as to structurally disqualify kernel 4.0.2. "Candidate" certainly doesn't mean what's already in Testing.
My understanding is that "Candidate" does mean what's already in Testing in the sense that the package is actually in the testing repo and is therefore available for installation by users.

From the Debian Manual...
2.7.3. Tweaking candidate version

Without the "/etc/apt/preferences" file, APT system choses the latest available version as the candidate version using the version string. This is the normal state and most recommended usage of APT system.
IMHO, until Debian promote a package from sid to testing then any given package is not actually a testing candidate as it is not available for installation with that particular release. It seems that this can cause mismatches of versions of different, apparently related, packages but this is, inevitably, one feature that distinguishes testing from stable. ;-)

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grizzler
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Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby grizzler » 24 May 2015 12:14

The word 'candidate' is used with two very different meanings, it would seem. When you use apt-get and apt-cache, it means exactly what ZIll and I have mentioned above: 'installation candidate'. However, at the top of pages like this one, the meaning is 'migration candidate', referring to the migration from unstable to testing. Let's not keep confusing the two.
Frank

SolydX EE 64 - tracking Debian Testing

Chris M
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Joined: 01 Sep 2013 20:16

Re: Breakages and News tracking Debian Testing

Postby Chris M » 30 May 2015 16:53

kurotsugi, the linux package migration candidate is trying to update from 4.0.2-1 to 4.0.4-1.

It looks like the linux-tools migration candidate page was simply not updated last week to indicate a move from 3.16-3 to 4.0+65. IOW, it looks like the candidate was, in fact, 4.0+65, but the page maintainer simply didn't update that in writing. The reason I say this is that the "candidate is 18 days old".

The Debian package tracker pages (https://packages.qa.debian.org/l/linux.html or https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/linux for linux) really tell the story as to why a package isn't migrating. If you follow the links at the bottom that speak to "bugs", the linked pages will indicate policy violations or makes package unfit for release.

What's interesting is that the Debian linux package team did apply the Critical ext4 data corruption patch to the 4.0.4-1 linux package, so we wouldn't have to wait for 4.0.5 - and it is still not ready from The Linux Kernel Organization. But ...

There is a new "Serious" bug that makes the 4.0.4-1 linux package unfit for release.


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