DDM and AMD Radeon

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Arjen Balfoort
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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 30 Mar 2017 16:14

I did not understand a word of that...


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mhwelsh
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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby mhwelsh » 31 Mar 2017 11:46

An early download of Solydk 9 offers to install a Radeon/AMD graphics driver from the Welcome Screen.
If you accept the offer and ask for an install you then get a message stating that there are no drivers available.
I have assumed that if the procedure offered by the operating system does not work it should be changed.
I would suggest that the message originating from the Welcome screen should be erased. (hardware drivers from ddm?)


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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 31 Mar 2017 12:17

Ah, the welcome screen...now I get it.

I will take a look as soon as I have some time.


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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 01 Apr 2017 17:00

I've uploaded a new solydxk-welcome that checks with ddm (the version in testing) to decide whether or not to show the drivers page. If there's nothing to install, it won't show up in the welcome screen.


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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby mhwelsh » 02 Apr 2017 13:20

Synaptic shows;
solydxk-welcome 1.3.4 and update manager 3.1.1 are installed.

My internet link is currently throwing a tantrum and is having difficulty getting access to all of the repositories.

There does not seem to be a change in the behavour.

If I am not up to date I may have to wait until I have been fixed.

martin welsh

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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 02 Apr 2017 14:06

Doesn't "being fixed" refer to a painful procedure we usually let our male dogs and cats undergo? :lol:

But fun aside, you were able to install the updates from testing but because of connection issues you cannot test DDM, right?


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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby mhwelsh » 03 Apr 2017 14:23

I have gone to my very slow 'testing' machine and tried in the Solydk version.
ddm is version 2.3.5 and 'welcome' is 1.3.4

Selecting the Welcome program, page 2 and when a driver is selected it displays the ATI/Radeon splashed header and if this is selected you get an instant statement saying there is othing available in repos.

If you select ddm the ATI/Radeon splash is shown and if this is selected you get an instant rejection - nothing in the repos.


Interesting to hear the dutch idea of fixing. Unfixing would be more appropriate surely.

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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 03 Apr 2017 14:32

mhwelsh wrote:Interesting to hear the dutch idea of fixing. Unfixing would be more appropriate surely.
Sorry, what did you mean by this?


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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby kurotsugi » 04 Apr 2017 05:28

if understand it correctly, in stretch, we only need to make sure both open driver were installed (i.e: radeon and amdgpu). the kernel will pick the approriate driver automatically. the propietary driver could be installed later (i.e: firmware-amd-graphics). it means that DDM only need to make sure the card is supported by the propietary driver and offer installation for it. the raw code would be:

Code: Select all

if <the card supported>
then <offer propietary driver installation>
else <do nothing>
did I missed something?

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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 04 Apr 2017 08:30

Yes, kurotsugi, it should be as simple as that, but unfortunately it isn't. I don't have the hardware and I've spent a lot of time already trying to fix this for ATI users and as you can see without much success.

I am not looking for any form of praise but as you can see by the previous few posts it seems that not only I get insulted for it but also all the people of my country. I'm going to take a break from this for a while. So, if somebody wishes to solve this issue: the latest ddm is in testing and all code is in the bash script: /usr/bin/ddm.


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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby grizzler » 04 Apr 2017 09:08

Arjen,
Not sure whether you are being serious right now, but looking back in tne thread, I think Martin was referring to your earlier remark about 'fixing' cats and dogs... ;)
Frank

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mhwelsh
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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby mhwelsh » 04 Apr 2017 13:08

As an aside, it is interesting to see how different countries translate colloquealisms.
I suppose if the first impression of its meaning is attractive this is the meaning that you retain, probably for ever.

Solydxk:

Ilu's message dated 20th February 2017 I think contains the answer.
AMD/Radeon had a driver purge and the drivers accessed from the Welcome page(Solydxk 9) are no longer available in testing. (Or from ddm in Solydxk 9.)

So the code should not include them. As you are all aware I am not an expert so I may have misinterpreted Ilu's previous post but from my point of view I will have to stick with what the bog standard install gives.

Now to go back to the aside, how does everybody translate 'bog standard'?

martin welsh

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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby kurotsugi » 05 Apr 2017 00:20

AFAIK amdgpu was made ot get rid the driver complexity over flgrx vs opensource driver. we should use this advantage for ourself.

I'd suggest to make DDM work as simple as that (i.e: only offer installation of propietary driver for supported hardwares). there might some problem on older hardware (e.x.: the kernel can't decide which driver to use so that it use wrong driver) but it wasn't a DDM issue. it's a matter which should be fixed on kernel level. I think debian also aware of this issue so we can leave this matter to them. on worst scenario we only need to block one of the opensource driver issue. it's a minor issue (I only see one report on our breakage thread and none on siduction breakage list) and it's lot easier to do it manually.

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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby ilu » 05 Apr 2017 21:43

I'm sorry I did not contribute to this any further but I currently don't have any hardware available that's reliably supported by AMDs new drivers. I wrote up every information I could get in theory but I can't test anything on metal. I don't dare to experiment on my production system with this.
kurotsugi wrote:if understand it correctly, in stretch, we only need to make sure both open driver were installed (i.e: radeon and amdgpu). the kernel will pick the approriate driver automatically. the propietary driver could be installed later (i.e: firmware-amd-graphics). it means that DDM only need to make sure the card is supported by the propietary driver and offer installation for it. the raw code would be:

Code: Select all

if <the card supported>
then <offer propietary driver installation>
else <do nothing>
did I missed something?
I was under the impression that the kernel installs only radeon and not the open amd-gpu driver. If you are right and the open amd-gpu driver is correctly chosen by the kernel DDM can concentrate on the proprietary driver. I still think you missed jessie, which still needs to be supported by DDM right? @Arjen: Or are you planning to "freeze" the last Jessie DDM version in the solydxk-8 repo?

I'm sorry I can propose only pseudo-code. I don't know enough to debug the actual code. I think raw code needs to be:

Code: Select all

if <system=stretch>
then <do amd-stretch>
else <do amd-jessie>

amd-stretch
if <card supported by firmware-amd-graphics>
then <offer firmware-amd-graphics>
elseif <card has experimental support by firmware-amd-graphics>
then <offer firmware-amd-graphics with warning: experimental>
else <do nothing>

amd-jessie
if <card supported by firmware-amd-graphics> or <card has experimental support by firmware-amd-graphics>
then <offer choice> 
	<firmware-amd-graphics from backports with warning: backports/experimental> or <offer fglrx>
elseif <card supported by fglrx>
then <offer fglrx>
else <do nothing>

<card supported by firmware-amd-graphics>
Volcanic Islands and later

<card has experimental support by firmware-amd-graphics>
newer Islands (GCN) - Southern Islands from 77xx and Sea Islands 

<card supported by fglrx>
every card up from earlier Islands (TeraScale)
I've got 2 cards that belong in the "experimentally supported" and "supported" category:

Code: Select all

lspci | grep VGA
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Cape Verde PRO [Radeon HD 7750 / R7 250E]
lspci | grep VGA
03:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Tonga PRO [Radeon R9 285] (rev f1)
The second command you asked for results in a strange list of numbers I can't interprete.

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ilu
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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby ilu » 05 Apr 2017 22:13

It took me some time to understand that that strange list results from the fact that my whole systems are made by AMD and not just the graphics card.

Code: Select all

lspci -n -d '1002': | awk '{print $3}' | cut -d':' -f2
... snip ...
683f
... snip ...

lspci -n -d '1002': | awk '{print $3}' | cut -d':' -f2
... snip ...
6939
... snip ...
So what kind of number is that in the lspci output? Does it have a name? The only ressource I found was for motherboards (http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/ only).

Edit: Ha, I found this: http://developer.amd.com/resources/ati- ... d-1002-li/. Does that help?

Should I try to group those numbers into the 3 categories I mentioned above?

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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby kurotsugi » 06 Apr 2017 01:32

I was under the impression that the kernel installs only radeon and not the open amd-gpu driver. If you are right and the open amd-gpu driver is correctly chosen by the kernel DDM can concentrate on the proprietary driver. I still think you missed jessie, which still needs to be supported by DDM right? @Arjen: Or are you planning to "freeze" the last Jessie DDM version in the solydxk-8 repo?
AFAIK the old DDM in jessie should work. we don't have to do anything on it. we could concentrate on what need to do for stretch. splitting the script like what you did will works too. I think that's a good idea to split it like that. as for the amdgpu driver, it is available as kernel modules. you only need to make sure that you have the package installed and the kernel should do the rest of the job for you. if you have a card which supported by amdgpu but it still using the old radeon, the possibilities are:
1. amdgpu is buggy for your card. hence, the developer decided that using radeon is better.
2. it's a bug.
theorically, aside from performance issue, the radeon will works for your card but if you want to use amdgpu, you can forcefully blacklist radeon. I believe this isn't a critical issue since the system would work just fine. this issue also happened on kernel level so most user wouldn't realize which driver did they use.

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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 08 Apr 2017 16:07

@Arjen: Or are you planning to "freeze" the last Jessie DDM version in the solydxk-8 repo?
The version in testing has some fixes for Nvidia. Only ATI in stretch isn't fixed and I won't be able to fix it because this blind coding is taking up far too much time. So, for that reason alone I'd like to upload that version to the main repository.

If there's anyone out there willing and able to help, the code (bash) is in Github: https://github.com/SolydXK/device-drive ... sr/bin/ddm


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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby ilu » 09 Apr 2017 12:02

I don't know python or bash scripting (except very easy stuff) so I can't help with the actual coding. I can only provide the distinguishing criteria for the card types, either the numbers or the code names. I don't really understand your argument about "blind coding" because you don't have all nvidia cards either haven't you? Implementing the general logic and then finetuning it as experience grows should be possible.
But I understand that you need your time elsewhere. Since nobody else will step in, Solydxk DDM won't support AMD graphics anymore. In that case I've already invested too much time into this.

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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby kurotsugi » 10 Apr 2017 01:00

yep...I got lost after reading the code too :lol:

somehow it became unnecessarily complex because it was designed for both jessie and stretch. It might be easier if we create two DDM. one for jessie and one for stretch. we will need to maintain two DDM but after stretch got released the burden will drastically reduced. the code will reduced more or less like this

Code: Select all

#amd-stretch
if <card supported by firmware-amd-graphics>
then <offer firmware-amd-graphics>
elseif <card has experimental support by firmware-amd-graphics>
then <offer firmware-amd-graphics with warning: experimental>
else <do nothing>
IIRC aside from the periodic maintainance there's no serious bug regarding DDM in jessie. we might could focused more on the next DDM.

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Re: DDM and AMD Radeon

Postby Arjen Balfoort » 03 Sep 2017 09:29

I picked up DDM again to see if I can solve this for Stretch (and beyond) only.
I want to separate the script into different scripts per hardware. So, a script for AMD/ATI, a script for NVidia, etc.

I started with the one that made me force to discontinue DDM in the last ISOs: AMD/ATI and there's where I need your help. You know I don't have any AMD/ATI cards and I have no clue if the script would actually install the right driver.

If you want to help, check out the script first. The variables in the header can be changed manually and I've commented the code to make things readable even if you don't speak Bash that well ;)
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